Switch heaters

[~Z~]

To start another thread so it doesn't stay in the train location update area, had a question regarding switch heaters. Since there's electricity already hooked up to most switches, isn't there a way to just use an electric heater on the switches to keep the snow off of them, instead of having a secondary propane heater? Possibly an electric heater wouldn't provide enough directed heat to the points on the switch that need them? I thought i've heard of some places uses electric heaters, but seems CSX up here has many propane heaters instead.

Sounds like the switch at the west leg of the wye in Holland is frozen solid. I would have thought that in this day and age of advanced technology that there would be a way to remotely ignite the "burner" there to thaw the switch - sounds like a maintainer has to go out and do it...?

The important subdivisions do have remote control switch heaters.

And the important subdivisions never work correctly.

They seem work better than begging for a track inspector to come out and light the manuel heaters. It usually takes a switch to fail before you can get someone out. The heaters that are the most fun to have lit are the ones that need a pipefitter to come out. If you need it lit at any time besides banker hours, good luck.

[M.D.Bentley]

We have both electric and propane. With the electric heaters all you need to do is flip a switch, that is if you have power. And it can be done remotely or by sensor and should be on before the snow flies. Propane tanks are filled pre season and ( the ones around here ) must be lit and if subjected to high wings can still be blown out and need to be lit again. Super cold , deep snow and high winds all spell trouble for the heaters. They must be on before the event to do any good and to keep things moving. There use to be some of the blower types around , but i'am not sure if we still use them. They used both propane and electricity and could do a good job also.

[brysonda]

Is the propane vs. electric a 'cost' saving choice? My thought being that perhaps it is cheaper, energy cost-wise, to use propane. Has to be some trade off in labor cost to fill the tank and service them when they need to be (re-)lit, though.

[CSX_CO]

I've only seen electric 'strip' heaters in person at Haskins on the Toledo Sub. BnO might be able to comment how well those work. Everything else I've seen is propane powered. Work great when B&B remembers to call the Propane people to come fill the tanks before the first snow storm. Work even better when the dispatchers remember to turn them on before the snow starts.

In the 50 year history of Avon, we're finally getting heaters for the switches. Before it was just the 'smudge pots' (which worked great) but the EPA hates the thought of rusty containers of kerosene sitting exposed on the ground. Finally Conrail installed cold air blowers. That kept the points clear of snow, but did nothing to keep them from freezing. Finally getting electric 'strip' heaters for our switches. Be interesting to see how well those work. Just too bad B&B couldn't get them installed before the first snow of the year.

Practice Safe CSX

[Saturnalia]

How much does line usage effect the abilities of switch heaters? It seems that more trains would help keep the snow clear better. Often times switches on the GR sub might not get used for more than 12 hours, not to mention thrown. Fact or fiction?

[CSX_CO]

How much does line usage effect the abilities of switch heaters? It seems that more trains would help keep the snow clear better. Often times switches on the GR sub might not get used for more than 12 hours, not to mention thrown. Fact or fiction?

Keeping the points moving will help keep snow from building up. That's why we exercise the electric switches at Avon whenever we can, even when we had blowers.

If anything, more traffic will cause the snow to blow and pack into the points, and around the throw rod. When it gets really bad, dispatchers on double track lines will attempt to limit the need to throw switches in the first place, eliminating cross over moves where they can, etc.

Heaters are only a 'stop gap' solution. If its snowing hard enough, they won't keep ahead of the snow. That is when you need a broom to sweep out the majority of the snow, and chip away the ice. Leaf blowers make for good snow removal. When it gets really bad, they break out the jet blowers. It is a DC10 engine mounted on a 'sled'. Only bad thing about that is it melts the snow, and if it gets really cold, will cause everything to freeze solid. Also throws rocks, debris, brake shoes, etc so you don't want to be standing near it.

Practice Safe CSX

[JoJames]

Cost of the unit is the usual deciding factor when it comes to new installation. Double tracking the former B&O for the ConRail split up brought the propane and natural gas fired blowers. They would work much better if they were not equipped with all the extra non needed environmental controls. A simple on or off switch would work much better. It takes a electrician to reset them most of the time. They cycle on and off all year long and I found out that is a no no to turn the fuel source off during mid summer and the heat is coming out full force on a day that is already very warm.
The electric heaters are being installed for any location needing replaced or new construction such as Hoytville North Baltimore and Galetea for the new intermodal yard and work fine once CSX listened to the supplier and used the heating pans under ALL the rods on the points.
Also in use are the propane and natural gas direct burner heaters located along the stock rails which work very well as long as the covers stay on.
The biggest problem is any strong wind or heavy snowfall that falls from the sky or falls off a moving train can cause the heaters to get behind and once that happens it usually takes a broom and something to chip the ice away to get it back to working on its own. That's when the phone rings at someone's home in the wee hours of the night unless they have been put on 24 hour snow coverage for bigger storms.

[JoJames]

How much does line usage effect the abilities of switch heaters? It seems that more trains would help keep the snow clear better. Often times switches on the GR sub might not get used for more than 12 hours, not to mention thrown. Fact or fiction?

No because every train drags snow into the heater area. Watch a train go by when there is fresh snow on the ground especially light powdery snow.

[JoJames]

I've only seen electric 'strip' heaters in person at Haskins on the Toledo Sub. BnO might be able to comment how well those work. Everything else I've seen is propane powered. Work great when B&B remembers to call the Propane people to come fill the tanks before the first snow storm. Work even better when the dispatchers remember to turn them on before the snow starts.

In the 50 year history of Avon, we're finally getting heaters for the switches. Before it was just the 'smudge pots' (which worked great) but the EPA hates the thought of rusty containers of kerosene sitting exposed on the ground. Finally Conrail installed cold air blowers. That kept the points clear of snow, but did nothing to keep them from freezing. Finally getting electric 'strip' heaters for our switches. Be interesting to see how well those work. Just too bad B&B couldn't get them installed before the first snow of the year.

Practice Safe CSX

Surprised you were never around SDI siding at St Joe Indiana with electric heaters.

[JoJames]

They seem work better than begging for a track inspector to come out and light the manuel heaters. It usually takes a switch to fail before you can get someone out. The heaters that are the most fun to have lit are the ones that need a pipefitter to come out. If you need it lit at any time besides banker hours, good luck.[/quote][/quote]


The funny thing about this is according to union rules lighting heaters is a no no for track inspectors and only should be done by a track foreman. There is many times I have broken that rule.

[GP9R]

CP 437 on the Chicago line uses electric switch heaters. They seem to function just fine

[SD80MAC]

I believe the BRC and/or the IHB have some of the air blower switch cleaners. Never seen one in action but based on the aftermath they seem to work pretty well.

[CSX_CO]

I believe the BRC and/or the IHB have some of the air blower switch cleaners. Never seen one in action but based on the aftermath they seem to work pretty well.

Down side to the 'air blowers' is it also tends to dry out the friction modifier on the points that help the switches move. We use an organic 'soy' based lube at Avon, or so I've been told. More environmentally friendly (EPA won't let em use the good stuff without track mats, runoff containment, etc) Maintainers have to come out more often to 'grease switches' because of the increased air flow over the points as the soy based stuff really dries out and/or washes away.

As long as it stays sunny and 70, we'll have no problems railroading.

Practice Safe CSX

[EWRice]

I would imagine that electric switch heaters cost BIG money to operate. My guess would be that they use electric where the convenience of it out-weighs the cost of operation. No flame to blow out, no fuel tanks to fill or pipelines to run and very little maintenance has to be worth something. I know that a standard 120v block heater in an engine can raise an electric bill an extra $50 a month just using it overnight. I am sure that a switch heater is a couple more watts than a block heater. I would be curious to know what the power consumption actually is.

[Standard Railfan]

Approximate power use and cost calcs.

Spectrum has two electric models.
RRSH 300
Demand is 3 kW for fan plus 19.5 kW for the heater
Consumption is 3kW +19.5kW = 22.5 kW x 24 hours = 540 kWh per day at $0.10 per kWh = $54 dollars per day

RRSH Dual-5 Series
Demand is 5kW for fan plus 45kW for the heater
Consumption is 5kW +45kW = 50 kW x 24 hours = 1200 kWh per day at $0.10 per kWh = $120 dollars per day

Hovey has the Hellfire 900 Propane model

300,000 to 900,000 Btu per firing rate. Take the middle. 600,000 Btu per hour
91,300 Btu per gallon. 600,000/91,300 = 6.6 gal per hour x 24 hours per day = 158 Gal/day at $2.00 per gallon = $316 per day

[CG Tower]

Some of us remember kerosene "smudge pots" used to keep points free of snow and ice...the cool aesthetic of a flickering flame (especially at night) was quickly overshadowed by the face that they would blow out easily by a train...

I'll see if I can find my photos of them being used.

CG Tower

[SousaKerry]

Some of us remember kerosene "smudge pots" used to keep points free of snow and ice...the cool aesthetic of a flickering flame (especially at night) was quickly overshadowed by the face that they would blow out easily by a train...

I remember finding a pile of those tossed to the side of the CSX mainline Williard sub. when I was a kid. Didn't know what they were at the time, wish I would have kept a few.