NS Starts new steam program!!!

[amtrak1007]

Ok time for my $0.02...


Steam locomotives are a great way for the railroads to connect with their past, and through that connect with possible shippers/communities they run through. Heavens, wouldn't it be so nice if all railroads cared so much about their image that they would parade a steam engine around the railroad to pump up the troops and attempt to connect with communities and shippers. Anyone in advertising or management can tell you its all about image. Non-railroad related companies would kill to have something like a steam engine to use as a conduit for connecting people and products...

The foamer in me is excited to see what happens...

[Mr. Tops]

IIRC, there was an amtrak P42DC at Owosso, and I'm guessing that it didn't get very much attention.

Why would it get any attention? Amtrak has well over 200 P42DC's that can be seen all across the country every day. There's only one SP 4449, NKP 765, PM 1225.

There is a bit of a difference between posting your opinion and bashing, downplaying and whining about steam. I don't care for steam either but I know that nobody cares whether or not I like steam, so I just keep quiet. I recognize it as a part of railroading history even if I'm not that interested in it. While people may (or may not) be interested in your opinion, you need to relax, enjoy the hobby and stop trying to decide what is best for Norfolk Southern. Sometimes it helps to think before you speak.

[bdconrail29]

Not trying to get in any argument here at all, but I disagree that steam gives a railroad a bad image. From my experience, it gives the railroad a GOOD image, because now everyone is interested. People who say that steam excursions are bad for the environment are probably those that drive their car all over the place, all the time.

On the other side, I can understand why CSX doesn't want steam excursions. Now really, have you ever SEEN the type of people that slobber and foam them things up? And what's weird, is that you never see them out railfanning anywhere. Kinda gives railfans a bad image huh?

Oh well. I personally enjoy steam I think stemming from way back when I received a picture of my great grandfather on a B&O westbound hammering the diamonds at Fostoria back in the late 40's. I blew it up and framed it.

Besides (as a physics major) I LOVE the mechanics of a well-built steam engine. I know that AC locomotives are just as complicated, but not in the same sense as a steam locomotive, with it's intricate maze of plumbing! I'm all for it.

[amtrak1007]

wait... tops are you speaking of tolerance for differing ideas/opinions??? what a novel concept! Filters are epic, but only work if used appropriately, I think those grow with getting your butt chewed out....

[~Z~]

No, I'm not. I'm merely saying that for NS to bill rail as a "green" mode of transportation, than to put steam locomotives (admit it, not "green") at the front of their PR scheme sure sends a mixed message, right?

I see Seth's point on this. Railroads are very much on the 'efficiency' public appearance, stating "400+ miles on a gallon of diesel" and other clean technologies. This part of Seth's point does make sense to me.. Heck, I used to think steam was ultra lame and didn't care at all to photograph it.. that was until I started watching 1225 and got more into it.
Anyway, he's more than welcome to state his thoughts, and I don't want to see people shunning others for speaking their minds on a relevant thread.
Back on subject.. way to go NS, glad you have a better stance on steam than CSX does.

[Shorthaul]

While people may (or may not) be interested in your opinion, you need to relax, enjoy the hobby and stop trying to decide what is best for Norfolk Southern. Sometimes it helps to think before you speak.

I did think about this, and I was only providing an alternate viewpoint.
I'm sorry if I have offended or bothered anybody, please don't take it personally. I do admit to being a little bit too harsh.

[sd70accsxt700]

Looking from outside the box, I compleatly understand what he is saying, smoke, oil, ect. From what the RR are projecting it makes sense. But how do you condem something you your self have not been a part of or even particapated in? Like steam or not, have you ever been to see on operate, or chase, or even ride? How many smiles have you seen if you have? It all comes down to what the public see's. And more often then not, all the times I have chased, rode, and seen one operate, its all smiles. I mean heck the best example's of this I can provide is the trip I took a few years ago out to Nebraska, and seen UP 3985 running. Now you had your normal groupe of railfans chasing, but at every town, the locals would be waiting at the station or elevator to watch it go by. Some because they have never seen one, others older folks who used to see them all the time, and dont any more. Other with children, who have never seen one. My point is if all these people came out to see one and all went away with smiles, that has to equate to good PR and happy thoughts about the RR's.

[SD80MAC]

Where was this P42 at Trainfest? I never saw it. I know the original plans called for an Amtrak engine to be on display there, but I never saw it. IIRC Amtrak took the unit that came east with 4449 back west on 365 the next morning.

[amtrak1007]

Where was this P42 at Trainfest? I never saw it. I know the original plans called for an Amtrak engine to be on display there, but I never saw it. IIRC Amtrak took the unit that came east with 4449 back west on 365 the next morning.

IIRC, the unit was cut of at DUUUURAND, and wyed to be taken back to Chicago right jon?

[CSX_CO]

I'll be the first to admit that prior to 2009, I had absolutely no interest in steam. My friends said "You just haven't seen it in action," which was true. After getting up close and personal with 765 at N. Judson on a very sparsely attended break in run early in the year, and then chasing 4449 twice (the return trip sparsely populated), I somewhat changed my tune.

However, I can see why CSX doesn't want steam on their tracks. They have never really had a heritage program, per se. They are really pushing the 'Green' aspect of railroads, and trying to make use of new technology and building techniques to further that image. Plus, they don't want to invite the liability that comes with bringing a steam engine on the property.

The bottom line is NS is going to do what it thinks is best for its company. It doesn't hurt railfans that a card carrying railfan is the CEO of NS right now. When the boss is a railfan, things get done that wouldn't normally. INRD is another example of this, the CEO is a ATSF nut, and has an ATSF Business car, and just built a new ATSF inspired 'passener depot' at Senate Ave in Indianapolis to house his two private cars, and woo people. On NS, this means 4 F units as 'executive' power, steam trips, etc. With that level of power comes the ability to entertain their own personal "fantasy's" if you will. Two entirely different corporate cultures on the eastern Class Ones right now.

Practice Safe CSX

[j32885]

NSCORP:
http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/ ... again.html

RYPN:
http://server.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29699
http://server.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29702
http://server.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29064

Facebook:
- Norfolk Southern
- Norfolk Southern Corp.

Thank you Wick Moorman for bring back the NS Steam Program. ^_^

I was 9 years old, when the old program was canned back in 1994. I remember learning about the news from my long time neighborhood friend at a Cub Scout meeting, and it broke my heart cried a lot that evening. During that, I got ride the NRHS Bluewater trips with my parents from Melvindale, MI (Detroit Metro Area) to Ft. Wayne, IN.

Did the following NRHS Bluewater trips:
- 1991 > N&W 1218
- 1992 > N&W 611
- 1993 > NKP 587
- 1994 > N&W 611

As for this NEW steam program, for NS, starting out small is a good thing, because that's how the old program started out back in 1966. I'm certain as time goes on they would want to run larger steamers from former NS road names. I've got my picks for future steam locomotives.

Servicing facilities to based the new program out would be either: Altoona, PA, Irondale AL, or Roanoke VA. As for current available NS steam locomotive power, NKP 765 & USA 610 are ready to roll out! SOU 630 & 4501 are almost completed.

As for equipment they would be using: NS F-Units, NS Business Cars, TVRM Passenger Cars, and NRHS Passenger Cars. They could also use Amtrak & AAPRCO equipment.

I hope to enjoy this new program as I did for the old one. Once again, thank you very much Wick Moorman! Alleluia!! Amen!!

[Mackinac Mac]

While CEO of Norfolk Southern in 2008, Charles Moorman earned a total compensation of $12,025,257, which included a base salary of $950,000, a cash bonus of $1,759,400, stocks granted of $6,768,618, and options granted of $2,415,000.

Do I think running steam is a good financial decision, no. Do I think it is any poorer a financial decision than the salary these board members recieve.... not even close.

NS does not need a steam program, but I am very thankful that they are doing something with their money for the common people, we can all appreciate a steam train, but we can't really enjoy the board members summer homes and swimming pools. Even if the program were just for the railroad's employees, I think that it is a great gift to the railroader's children and families. And for us railfans to whom the railroad owes us nothing, I think it can only increase are sense of awe and appreciation for our hobby.

It is important for us to remember the past and bringing it to life for a new generation to see is the stuff dreams are made of and really helps connect with how far we have come (or fallen?). Only a company with the wealth and power like NS could do something like this, so lets just appreciate it for now as "nothing gold can stay".

Thanks NS. Nice to see a post David R. Goode NS.

[kruzzer44]

While I will agree with the person who says steam pollutes .I would love to see one of those old guys in action once in a while..I find the Diesels a great piece of engineering but very Booooooooring lol ..I am 65 years old and have never witnessed a Large Steam Locomotive running at full speed such at the Hiawatha or NYC Bullet nose Hudson . would love to have lived in those days..incidentally .I watched a train with 8 units pulling a train last night and the smoke and scent of those Diesels were pretty bad.
Was plenty of smoke and nasty fumes coming from those locomotives to go around..Like the guy says lets just have a little fun for a while and hope we can actually see one of these old Giants in action..after all we don't ban all old car shows do we ? Happy Railfanning .BOB

[MDH]

While CEO of Norfolk Southern in 2008, Charles Moorman earned a total compensation of $12,025,257, which included a base salary of $950,000, a cash bonus of $1,759,400, stocks granted of $6,768,618, and options granted of $2,415,000.

Do I think running steam is a good financial decision, no. Do I think it is any poorer a financial decision than the salary these board members recieve.... not even close.

I don't see anything wrong with either the executive comp or the steam program. If anything, I'd say the executive comp looks well structured - far and away the smallest portion is the base comp with most of the total comp being performance based. Speaking of performance, NS is a strong healthy company that earned more than $1 Billion in net income last year. The CEO's comp is only about 1% of net income which seems a pretty reasonable reward for someone doing a good job of managing a company for the shareholders. His decisions can have +/- $100's of millions of dollars of direct bottom line impact - why shouldn't he be rewarded for making good ones?

http://www.nscorp.com/nscorphtml/pdf/an ... t-2009.pdf

Side note - interesting they used a night streak shot for the cover of their annual report.

[hoborich]

Get a grip. It's not like NS is turning the whole system back over to steam.
You probably don't like 50s cars either.

[bdconrail29]

Yeah, plus we're talking ONE steam engine out of the millions of cars running everyday. Wouldn't that be like less than 0.001% of total emissions daily? Everyone always has SOMETHING to complain about.

[SD80MAC]

I somehow doubt the "environmental impact" of 1 steam locomotive would even be measurable for the amount of time they're actually going to be running it.

[Shorthaul]

Ok guys, I am not actually complaining about the environmental impact of the steam locomotives. I understand that one locomotive (or even 100) would emit negligible amounts of pollution to the environment compared to the overall human race's impact. I do live in Ann Arbor, but I am not as radical about environmentalism as most people around here are. I do believe in environmental responsibility (and I am slightly sickened when I see bright yellow smoke coming out of the Detroit wastewater plant's stacks), but I do not want to ban coal or anything like that. I am not against the actual environmental impact, I am against the public's perception of the environmental impact. As many of you realize, most Americans have never actually been on a train, and are very unaware of the actual benefits and efficiencies of the rail industry, which normally gets very little positive media attention. The only time that freight railroads are in the media is when they block crossings, derail, hit cars, or when there is some kind of festival or special PR train that comes into the area. The last one is the only one that is not negative, when trains are presented as something other than hazards or obstructions. If these steam festivals or PR trains involve steam locomotives (which is what I think NS is planning on doing), then that's what the media does their stories on, and that's what the public sees. It's no secret that steam locomotives emit large amounts of smoke, noise, and steam, and if people see this on television, then their views on railroads will be skewed towards believing that trains are still inefficient and pollute more than trucks, which is not correct. I am guessing that the media will not take much time to report on the actual operations of railroads today, so people will still perceive them as dated and obsolete. Just try to think about it from the viewpoint of someone with NO knowledge of the rail industry.

[kruzzer44]

Hello I posted earlier that I thought Diesels were boring .Think I was not stating my case right ..I meant compared to a Steam Locomotive they were ..I love trains of all kinds ..but with the absence of Interlocking towers to signal and watch ..used to love to go up in those old towers but technology replaced them ..cost a lot of jobs for sure..I just want to enjoy a little of the past if NS will provide it..and people who think steam locomotives are lumbering giants with no power are a little mistaken...Milwaukee Road Hiawatha passed 110 miles per hour in passenger service regularly ..and those huge duplex drive Pennsylvania Railroad Engines were awesome along side the NYC Hudson so I have to think those old engines were very powerful..I enjoy all the posts on here whether positive or negative about steam...Happy Train Watching for all of you...Rob

[ETR#101]

Very sweet news!
I can see where shorthaul is coming from about the image of being a company who doesn't mind pollution when running a steamer. BUT....I think what it does more for people is make them think travel by rail is , an elegant, sexy way to travel. That alone can boost ridership for companies. Someone said something about steam helping connect with shippers. Some RRs still deliver materials with vintage F units because the boss of the receiving company is nostalgic about them. He remembers when the company was small and these very units helped make his company a viable buisness.
Me? I love steam. I love the way they sit there, sweating it out, huffing and grumbling to themselves, wanting to get the show on the road.

BTW.....in 2012 (short notice? lol) Essex Terminal #9 will be coming down to Windsor from Waterloo for excursions on the ETR.