MMRR Z627 Log

[Mr. Tops]

11-24-09

Z627-24 Southbound

GR 3839
MMRR 179

6 (L) Shape (B)
5 (L) Nugent (CH)
7 (E) Brinks (T)
3 (E) Fremont Co-op (CH)
1 (E) Fremont Co-op (T) 1005
1 (E) Bayer (T) 1789

23 total

[Mr. Tops]

11-30-09

Z627-30 Northbound

GR 3839
MMRR 179

97 (E) Nugent (CH)

97 total

Got sand?

[AARR]

11-30-09

Z627-30 Northbound

GR 3839
MMRR 179

97 (E) Nugent (CH)

97 total

Got sand?

Wow, 97 empties I take it. Did CSX bring them in as a unit or as part of another consist?

[SD80MAC]

Holy crap thats a ton of sand! Glad to hear they got 179 running again. I'm suprised they made the hill with just 3839 and that little thing!

[Mr. Tops]

11-30-09

Z627-30 Northbound

GR 3839
MMRR 179

97 (E) Nugent (CH)

97 total

Got sand?

Wow, 97 empties I take it. Did CSX bring them in as a unit or as part of another consist?

Yes, Don, they were empties. That's what the (E) means. CSX ran them as a second section of Q326, symbolled S326.
Going north, there aren't many hills, and being empties, they don't present much of a problem. I figure it weighed about 2,765 tons (half were 2-bays which weigh 56,000lbs empty and the other half were 3-bays which weigh 58,000lbs empty, so average car weight is 57,000lbs, times 97, divided by 2,000). 2,765 tons is about how much 27 loaded sand cars would weigh, which they've had on their plate before. And remember, 179 only has 250 less horses than 3836.

[SD80MAC]

True, but a GP38 has a decent amount more tractive effort than a GP9.

[AARR]

True, but a GP38 has a decent amount more tractive effort than a GP9.

According to what I've read GP9's typically have around 40,000-47,000 lbs of tractive effort while GP38's have 50,000. I'm not sure what that equates to in tonnage on the Montague Sub.

[Mr. Tops]

A GP9 actually has more starting tractive effort than a GP38 does. GP9s have 65,000lbs, while a GP38 only has 61,000lbs of starting TE. As for continuous TE, Don is correct in saying GP9s have 40,000lbs and GP38s having 50,000lbs both at around 10mph. Being the cars were all empty and it's mostly downhill going north from Waverly, it shouldn't have been much of a problem.

[SD80MAC]

OOOOHHHHH, I thought they were going out of Muskegon with 97 cars, which made me think of the Henry St. Hill.

[AARR]

A GP9 actually has more starting tractive effort than a GP38 does. GP9s have 65,000lbs/ft, while a GP38 only has 61,000lbs/ft of starting TE.

Hmm, I'll have to start paying attention to the starting vs continuous.

[Hugh]

My son and I saw all those emptys in Wavery yard last Friday night on our way to 84 East Pasta. The FRED was still on the end car, near the Holland station.

[Mr. Tops]

OOOOHHHHH, I thought they were going out of Muskegon with 97 cars, which made me think of the Henry St. Hill.

Notice where it says "Z627-30 Northbound"

Anyhow, back on the tractive effort schpiel...

Tractive effort is just how much force can be applied to the coupler/drawbar of a locomotive before the wheels start spinning, based on the weight and horsepower of that unit. On the railroad, tractive effort means "power". If the wheels are spinning, the train is too heavy and we don't have enough power/tractive effort -- or the train is on the ground. As far as a GP9 and GP38 (or any unit(s)) pulling X amount of cars (read tonnage), there are several factors that are taken into account;

HPT -- horsepower per trailing ton. Basically to make sure you have enough horses to move your carriage. To get HPT, you take the total horsepower of all working locomotives divided by the total trailing weight of the train in tons. So, with 179 and 3839, you have 3,750 HP, and the train was around 2,765 tons. That gives you a 1.3 HPT, which is sufficent. Looking at a freight on UP right now that has 2 SD70Ms and 6153 tons, which is also 1.3 HPT. Usually around 1 HPT is good.

There is also TPA -- tons per powered axle. Similar to HPT, TPA is used to determine how power you will need taking into effect tonnage and grades. TPA is calculated by dividing the total trailing tonnage by the total equivalent powered axles. This particular train would have been 345 TPA. Each line has a TPA requirement after factoring in grades and train speeds, etc. On UP, for manifest trains on grades of .5 or less, the limit is 800 TPA. Grades between .5 and .84 are 500 TPA.

And then there's EPA (no not the Environmental Protection Agency) -- Equivalent Powered Axles. Each train has an EPA minimum requirement. A GP9 has 4 EPA and a GP38 has 4.5. The 6,153 ton UP train I'm looking at has an EPA requirment of 13. SD70s have an EPA of 10.4, so he has plenty of EPA. Bottom line is, MS knows their grades and their max TPA. These are the tools that are used to figure out if a train is too heavy/underpowered. Tractive effort is just a word...er...two words.

[trnwatcher]

I'm hearing that these cars are going to Nugent so they can ship the last of the sand they have mined and close the plant at years end. Anyone hearing this too?

[Mr. Tops]

I'm hearing that these cars are going to Nugent so they can ship the last of the sand they have mined and close the plant at years end. Anyone hearing this too?

I'm not sure why Nugent would be in such a hurry to ship out the last bit of sand that they would need to add 100 cars to their pool? What's the rush? Now, the writing has been on the wall for years. I remember 7 or 8 years ago they said they had 5 or 6 years worth of sand left at their Lincoln Street location. After that, they would move all operations to their Dalton Township location. Nugent ships about 6,500 tons of sand per week by rail to mainly GM in Defiance, OH. Not to say GM couldn't find another supplier but there would be a decent-sized spur required to get to their Dalton Township location, north of Berry Junction. There was also talk of trucking the sand from Dalton to the Lincoln Street facility to load it into railcars. I haven't heard anything in the news about it yet, but I'm sure it will happen at some point.

[AARR]

Nugent ships about 65,000 tons of sand per week by rail to mainly GM in Defiance, OH.

Thanks for all the good info Tops. Do you mean 6,500 tons per week?

[Mr. Tops]

Maybe

[Mr. Tops]

A few notes...

On Thursday, 12/10, the Z627 crew went up to Henry Street to get 3839 out of the engine shed. MofW was there clearing snow with leaf blowers. After getting 3839 out, they took 180 and CFE 3885 and stuck 3885 in the shed and put 180 back outside. My guess is 3885 will be giving some parts to 3836, which is still inside being worked on. At this point (around 1700), the day crew was finishing up at North Yard using 179.

The Z627 finally departed around 1800

Z627-10 Southbound

MMRR 179
GR 3839

3 (E) Shape (B)
19 (L) Nugent (CH)
1 (E) Bayer (T) hydrochloric acid
5 (E) Brinks (T) nitrogen solution

28 total

On Friday, 12/11, I saw the day crew using 179/3839 to bring 38 empty sand hoppers from North Yard to Henry Street. These must have come in on the inbound Z627-10.

On Saturday, 12/12, I heard MS going down to Nugent Sand in the late morning. I live about a 1/2 mile from Nugent and 1/4 from the tracks to there but was still in bed when I heard them -- yes, I was awake and not dreaming. I can't recall the last time MS worked on a Saturday, if they have ever.

[Mr. Tops]

MMRR 179 and CFE 3885 will lead the Z627-14 tonight. MMRR 3836 and GR 3839 are in the Henry Street engine house.

[SD80MAC]

Noooooo! Quick, call the diesel doctor, tell him to fix Big Red and Big Blue ASAP!

That being said, it is nice to see they're using 3885 again.

[Mr. Tops]

Yeah, I'm not sure what's wrong with the big red one. May just be in for its 92 day. The blue one is still in having its traction motors rewired. I had no idea that 3885 was operable. It had been sitting outside for months; they moved it inside on Thursday and on Monday it's running. Interesting that they plucked 179 out of the storage line before 3885 to fill in for 3836, though I'm sure they have their reasons.