Toledo Branch Stuff

[cbehr91]

Yes B&O, its the missing leg of the wye in Deshler. I want to say it was the Bowling Green Sub.

Nope. That's the branch to Findlay. The Bowling Green Branch (or whatever it was called) never went through Deshler.

Take a look at this map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_1961.jpg

[sd70accsxt700]

what was the name of an abandoned rr line that ran west of the Toledo Branch and that split from the B&O at Tontogany and ran through Bowling Green and through villages and place names like Portage, Rudolph, Ducat, Bays, Plaza, Hammansburg and finally ending at North Baltimore.

That is the Bowling Green Sub. That is the missing leg of the northeast wye in Deshler. Instead of it being in Deshler, it came off at Tontogany and ran south and turned east at North Baltimore. The line to Findlay never went north of Deshler.

[cbehr91]

To answer redside20's original question, the piece of railroad between Tontogany and North Baltimore was the B&O through Bowling Green. The line to Findlay split off between South Deshler and the diamond with the Chicago main (totally unrelated). To be honest, I was really thrown off by the whole "missing wye" in Deshler thing (was there even a wye there years ago?)

I'm guessing what sd70accsxt700 is saying that instead of the wye being in Deshler, it was in Tontogany instead (if there was even a wye there in the first place).

[Y@]

To answer redside20's original question, the piece of railroad between Tontogany and North Baltimore was the B&O through Bowling Green. The line to Findlay split off between South Deshler and the diamond with the Chicago main (totally unrelated). To be honest, I was really thrown off by the whole "missing wye" in Deshler thing (was there even a wye there years ago?)

I'm guessing what sd70accsxt700 is saying that instead of the wye being in Deshler, it was in Tontogany instead (if there was even a wye there in the first place).

The MISSING WYE is the wye that ISN'T THERE and NEVER WAS. It would have been in the NE quadrant, but due to the problem of not being able to put a 4th wye in at Deshler, they built the line out from Tontogany and it then turned east at NB, just like Matt said.

[MSchwiebert]

The BG breanch served as the connection track between the Willard division and Toledo division that enabled Willard to Toledo moves. As B&O and C&O operations became more intertwined (and a connection track built at Fostoria) the BG branch became redundant and was abandoned by the late 1970's. At one time there were "wyes" at both North Baltimore and Tontogany so access could be gained from either direction at either junction, but as mentioned earlier the primary purpose was for Willard-Toledo (and vis-versa) routings.

[cbehr91]

To answer redside20's original question, the piece of railroad between Tontogany and North Baltimore was the B&O through Bowling Green. The line to Findlay split off between South Deshler and the diamond with the Chicago main (totally unrelated). To be honest, I was really thrown off by the whole "missing wye" in Deshler thing (was there even a wye there years ago?)

I'm guessing what sd70accsxt700 is saying that instead of the wye being in Deshler, it was in Tontogany instead (if there was even a wye there in the first place).

The MISSING WYE is the wye that ISN'T THERE and NEVER WAS. It would have been in the NE quadrant, but due to the problem of not being able to put a 4th wye in at Deshler, they built the line out from Tontogany and it then turned east at NB, just like Matt said.

Alright then. It was a misunderstanding.

[CSX_CO]

The BG breanch served as the connection track between the Willard division and Toledo division that enabled Willard to Toledo moves. As B&O and C&O operations became more intertwined (and a connection track built at Fostoria) the BG branch became redundant and was abandoned by the late 1970's. At one time there were "wyes" at both North Baltimore and Tontogany so access could be gained from either direction at either junction, but as mentioned earlier the primary purpose was for Willard-Toledo (and vis-versa) routings.

Not to get off topic, but I thought I read somewhere that the line from N. Baltimore to Tontogany pre-dates the line continuing west towards Deshler and Garrett. The B&O built west from Chicago Junction (Willard) it got to N. Baltimore. About the same time, they got a controlling interest in the north south line through Deshler (was it CH&D that far north?). Seeing Toledo as a new market for them, the B&O quickly built between N. Baltimore and Tontogany to gain access to Toledo from the east (most direct way they could at the time). They then continued west and built the diamond at Deshler before pushing further west. Otherwise, had the B&O been firmly established, it would have made more sense to build the connection at Deshler, rather than 10 or 15 miles of additional ROW. Unless they had the ulterior motive of tapping Bowling Green traffic?

Getting back to the Toledo Branch, did the B&O get anywhere near the T&OC in Bowling Green? Also, where did the B&O's Findlay Branch end at? You can still see remants of the former Findlay, Fort Wayne, and Western around the 44 signal. I've been told the bridge in town used to be shared by the T&OC and FFw&W, using a gauntlet track.

Practice Safe CSX

[MDH]

Here's a nifty resource - the official railroad map of Ohio from 1914:

http://www.railsandtrails.com/Maps/Ohio ... sion/1914/

Now what I find randomly amusing about it is that they list state insane asylums also...

From this map it looks like CH&D had a branch from Tontogany to BG and down to N. Baltimore that the B&O would have "inherited" when they got the CH&D...

(the CH&D is that light "pinkish" set of lines and the red dashed lines are electric/interurbans - zoom in on the NW Ohio one and you can see what I'm pointing out)

Regards,
Michael

[MSchwiebert]

My best guess about the BG branch is that it was built by the CH&D (or the predecessor Dayton & Michigan RR - which oddly enough still exists as a corporate entity and stock of which can be bought) to tap the oilfield business first, and then was adapted to connect the CH&D to the B&O to provide the needed Willard-Toledo Routing. I always thought the routing of the BG branch was odd for what it ended up doing, when they could have just as easily either built a connection track in Deshler considering the founder of Deshler (John Deshler) gave the land to the B&O necessary to entice them to go through "his" town (the original plan was for the B&O to follow the "high ground" and cross the CH&D/Toledo Sub at Belmore - in fact CSX real estate still owns a 70-80 acre lot in Belmore that was part of the original plan) I can't picture it would have taken too much arm twisting to move whatever structures would have been in the way at the time for a northeast "wye". Or, do a track along the Wood-Henry county line from the Toledo sub to the Willard Division - it would have been a straight shot south and much shorter. This is why I think the line was originally built from Tontogany and probably terminated in BG to tap the oil boom market - and then was later extended south to North Baltimore to make the connection there.

[CG Tower]

To add to the discussion, the B&O and the T&OC had a connection track at Galatea. There was a NW quadrant connection and a small stub track. The connection swung off the T&OC and connected to the B&O creating a third track into North Baltimore. This third track ran through town to I believe Mitchell Street in N.B. The wye track to the BG Sub swung off this third track.

I am not sure the exact date of removal of this connection track at Galatea, but the interlocking diagrams from Galatea shows it partially intact up through early 1980, at least the signal was in place up through the 1980's.

Eric at CG Tower

[cbehr91]

To add to the discussion, the B&O and the T&OC had a connection track at Galatea. There was a NW quadrant connection and a small stub track. The connection swung off the T&OC and connected to the B&O creating a third track into North Baltimore. This third track ran through town to I believe Mitchell Street in N.B. The wye track to the BG Sub swung off this third track.

I am not sure the exact date of removal of this connection track at Galatea, but the interlocking diagrams from Galatea shows it partially intact up through early 1980, at least the signal was in place up through the 1980's.

Eric at CG Tower

Who knows, it might get put back in. Actually it wouldn't be outrageous if connections were put in on both the NW and SW quadrants. It would save trains like Q-146/7 three turns (Ridgeway, Marion and Fostoria) and give easy access to the Toledo Branch in both directions.

[bdconrail29]

My grandfather was an engineer on the B&O from Willard to Detroit and vice versa in the 40's and 50's. He regularly ran to Toledo via Bowling Green.

[CSX_CO]

To add to the discussion, the B&O and the T&OC had a connection track at Galatea. There was a NW quadrant connection and a small stub track. The connection swung off the T&OC and connected to the B&O creating a third track into North Baltimore. This third track ran through town to I believe Mitchell Street in N.B. The wye track to the BG Sub swung off this third track.

I am not sure the exact date of removal of this connection track at Galatea, but the interlocking diagrams from Galatea shows it partially intact up through early 1980, at least the signal was in place up through the 1980's.

Eric at CG Tower

Who knows, it might get put back in. Actually it wouldn't be outrageous if connections were put in on both the NW and SW quadrants. It would save trains like Q-146/7 three turns (Ridgeway, Marion and Fostoria) and give easy access to the Toledo Branch in both directions.

I could see the SW, but why the NW? CSX already has a connection at Deshler, and a backup at Fostoria. What good would an additional connection do you at Galetea? A lot of $$$ for very little operational gain.

Practice Safe CSX

[CG Tower]

I could see the SW, but why the NW? CSX already has a connection at Deshler, and a backup at Fostoria. What good would an additional connection do you at Galetea? A lot of $$$ for very little operational gain.

Practice Safe CSX

I am not sure there would be a need for this in present day. I am trying to figure out what the need was back then unless it was just an interchange. My assumption for the track being on the NW side is that, with the siding near by, a train could clear the diamond and do it's work.

CG Tower

[Typhoon]

Look for another pair of trains on the Branch starting next month. Trains will run five days a week........

[CG Tower]

Great to hear...any other details?

Eric at CG

Look for another pair of trains on the Branch starting next month. Trains will run five days a week........

[CSX_CO]

Look for another pair of trains on the Branch starting next month. Trains will run five days a week........

They moved Q218's departure time up an hour (hour earlier that is) in the recent weeks. Reasoning was 'bunching'. Wasn't bunching at Avon, and Stanley only takes you in when they are darn good and ready, so I assume this moves to try and get it to the branch in a different time slot. As it were, Q218 would usually meet Q219 around Bellefountaine or west (no conflict there) and Q131 at Dunbridge. Moving it up an hour means it could meet Q219 at Ridgeway (or on the Branch) and possibly be in before Q131.

Practice Safe CSX

[Typhoon]

Great to hear...any other details?

Eric at CG

Look for another pair of trains on the Branch starting next month. Trains will run five days a week........

I can not say too much else, except those on the Lincoln Secondary will also see these trains, and they are NOT intermodal.

[CG Tower]

Actually, that helps quite a bit!

Thanks!

CG Tower

Great to hear...any other details?

Eric at CG

Look for another pair of trains on the Branch starting next month. Trains will run five days a week........

I can not say too much else, except those on the Lincoln Secondary will also see these trains, and they are NOT intermodal.

[CSX_CO]

Great to hear...any other details?

Eric at CG

Look for another pair of trains on the Branch starting next month. Trains will run five days a week........

I can not say too much else, except those on the Lincoln Secondary will also see these trains, and they are NOT intermodal.

I would hope I can safely say that Avon isn't originating enough traffic to go directly to Detroit on another train. So, I'm guessing traffic will go all the way to Columbus on the Scottslawn?

Edit: A couple of PM's straightened me out. I was right through, Avon isn't originating the traffic.

Practice Safe CSX