DT&I 1979 into GTW......

[bnsf8000]

I was skimming through an old Rails Northeast DT&I article online. It had the train symbols listed and got me wondering what trains ran and when. Like there were the DC9's. DC7's, DS and DJ trains and of course others. My first question is about the DT&I's Railblazer. Did it normally rate 1 or 2 units? What were the length of the Railblazer trains? Was it shortlived/ my guess is yes. Did it run into the GTW era? About the DT&I what days did the other trains run or daily. I'm figuring trains like DC9 and the Railblazer were daily. Also, how much did it change when GTW took over? Was it pretty much business as usual or did they try to put their stamp on operations? What trains ran when during GTW? Over the years back then, I remember seeing trains through Lima or near and don't know much about the DT&I and GTW. I saw many GTW auto rack trains over the years. If this has been on here before I apologize Thanks for any info. PW

[AARR]

I too look forward to any insights about GTW operations after take over. GTW abadnoned some of the track pretty quick after take over. Washington Court House to Jackson aqnd Napoleon to Adrian for example. You may want to post this in Historical section.

[thomas]

the railblazers
RB-1 and RB-2 ran from the southern in cincinnati, and would vary in size widely, mostly had 2 units from what i remember, the main reason it didn"t last into GTW days was that it had a hard time making money, the same went for this train into GTW days , it would come off CSX and some days he had 1 unit and 2 cars, the same problem came up again, no profit and it would stop running for a while and pig traffic would be put on the freight trains....hope this helps

[midland sub]

Best piece of documentation for that era is Neff's DT&I-GTW dvd series. Its a great time to buy the entire series as Green Frog has a special deal for all 9 dvds for $29. There's a lot of bad info out there on the early GTW years south of Springfield.

Not sure what became of RB1 in terms of GTW, but they ran intermodal trains thru the very end. There were a couple solid NS traffic trains 380/381. Off the top of my head DC7-DC9 became 472/473. The Flat Rock to Glen Jean/Waverly south end trains became 476/477.

[StupidFlee​t]

I too look forward to any insights about GTW operations after take over. GTW abadnoned some of the track pretty quick after take over. Washington Court House to Jackson aqnd Napoleon to Adrian for example. You may want to post this in Historical section.

Napoleon-Adrian was ripped out about 1978 and Malinta-Napoleon was ripped out about 1988.

[JoJames]

In the Grand Trunk era it was very common for the Railblazer trains to run with Chessie power along with 472 and 473. PHFA wich was the symbol for Port Huron Flatrock Atlanta turned into 380 and 381 in the Grand Trunk era and ran with Norfolk Southern power. At the very end of the Grand Trunk era a new train was run from Toronto to Cincinnati and always had CN power which was very neat to see coming through Hamler.

[CG Tower]

This may help.

http://cg-tower.com/dti/operations/trai ... ininfo.htm

If you click on the individual train ID's you will find a profile of each train with their times circa 1980.

CG Tower

[redside20]

If CN hadn't bought back the GTW and bought the IC to New Orleans, would CN used the DT&I to Springfield and then by trackage rights to Cincinnati over NS. Beyond Cincinnati would CN or whoever used haulage rights to get to Memphis. Would this been the long way to route traffic out of Canada and Michigan to the Louisiana, Arkansas, and Texas area

[AARR]

This may help.

http://cg-tower.com/dti/operations/trai ... ininfo.htm

If you click on the individual train ID's you will find a profile of each train with their times circa 1980.

CG Tower

Great info CG. Thanks.

[midland sub]

Using the Neff videos on the DT&I-GTW here's what I've come up with. Looks like GTW switched to the numeric symbols sometime in late 1984 or early 1985.

RB-1 and RB-2 became 217 and 218 under GTW. Neff caught a very small 2 car 217 in Dayton with a Chessie System GP40-2 in October 1985. They also was TOFC mixed in the 380/381 and 470/471. They ran through at least the fall of 1995. Most of what Neff caught in the fall of 1995 are a decent size. They were gone by February of 1997.

As JoJames already stated, 380-381 were the Detroit-Gest St NS trains. Plenty of NS power on those trains, especially in the early 1990s.

470-471 seem to be Detroit-Cincy (Gest St and Queensgate) trains.

472-473 were Detroit-Decoursey (L&N then CSX) trains.

476-477 were Detroit-Glen Jean/Waverly south of Springfield on the DT&I to Wash CH and then over the former B&O to Chillicothe and C&O to Glen Jean. Mostly coal, coke and autorack traffic interchanged with CSX and NS at Glen Jean.

[bnsf8000]

CG Tower, Midland, JoJames thanks for all info. Very interesting. If you think of anything else don't be shy. PW

[midland sub]

According to Aaron Coyan at the B&O Southwestern group, the DT&I was picking up 3 unit trains of coal per week from the C&O @ Greggs headed for Detroit back in 1978. There was also a couple of grain trains a week during the fall that were interchanged withe C&O @ Greggs. DT&I-GT Vol 2 shows one of the coal trains from the C&O behind 3 of the EMD SD60 demos- Sept 20, 1985. The coal traffic survived until at least 1986.

[thomas]

coal survied into GTW days out of cincinnati also, when DT&I would get a coal train off the L&N, DT&I would use 6 4-axle mostly GP40's ,then in GTW days they would use 4 SD40'S, trains never was very much at the most was 2 a week

[midland sub]

A bit more history of the DT&I-GTW south of Springfield:

June of 1981 the DT&I builds a connection to the B&O (CH&D) Wellston Sub at Fayne about 4 miles north of Washington CH. The DT&I-B&O ran parallal to each other from Fayne south to Wash CH where they then crossed each one another. This allows the DT&I to abandon 4 miles of track and repairs to a wooden trestle in Wash CH. The tracks are removed in 1982. Ironically this also saves this section of the old B&O line to Dayton, as just 3 months earlier the last 2 thru freights (Dayton-Chillicothe) had been discontinued. This restores the interchange the B&O-DT&I interchange at Fayne that later will be used to interchange grain trains between the I&O and CSX and the new yard the I&O built last fall.
[urlhttp://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2327166][/url]

Sept 1, 1981 the DT&I begins using the B&O Wellston Sub from Wash CH south to Musselman and the connection to the B&O's Ohio Div main to Chillicothe. In Chillicothe they again access the old CH&D using the Renick Subdivision to cross the Scioto River and then to the connection to the C&O at VA Jct @ Vauces. From Vauces the DT&I used the C&O east (south ) to Greggs where they accessed their own trackage on to Jackson. The move over to the B&O-C&O trackage rights saved the DT&I over $2 million dollars a year vs. using their route south of Wash CH via Summit Hill to Waverly.

The DT&I made the last runs on the Ironton Branch in May of 1982 when they also filed to abandon the old main from Thrifton south to Waverly. They removed the DT&I from Fayne thru Wash CH about this time. They removed the B&O-DT&I diamond and interlocking and replaced it with a switch so the DT&I could still access the old main south to Thrifton. There were still several customers in Wash CH south of the new switch (Armco, Wilson Lumber, a building supply company and Wilson ready-mix plant), a Mid Ohio fertlizer dealer just south of Wash CH and at Good Hope, the Blue Rock stone quarry and then Johnson Controls in Greenfield and the B&O interchange @ Thrifton. Johnson Controls was the big customer receiving inbound tank cars of chemicals (still do) and outbound shipments of foam seat inserts for Ford in 60 ft and 86 ft boxcars. The outbound traffic was split between the DT&I and the B&O interchange @ Thrifton. The outbound traffic from Johnson Controls started to fall off in early 1983 so the DT&I ended up selling the line from the stone quarry and spur to Johnson Controls to Thrifton to the owners of the stone quarry. Which named the operation Blue Rock Transporation and used an old center cab Whitcomb locomotive. Blue Rock never really shipped any stone after buying the line except for a couple times to GTW thru the B&O interchange @ Thrifton. Blue Rock continued to switch Johnson Controls a couple of times a week using the Whitcomb until 1989 when Johnson Controls bought their spur and the the old DT&I to Thrifton. The I&O tookover and continues (in a couple of weeks the plant will again receive their first car loads in 2 years) to serve the plant. With the sale of the line at Greenfield the old main south of Thrifton over Summit Hill to Waverly was removed in August of 1983. The line from south of Wash CH to the Blue Rock quarry was removed in the summer of 1984.

More later...

[AARR]

More later...

Looking forward to it. You recall the kind of details that I would if I could

[midland sub]

Basically all the info is from different discussions we've had at the B&O Southwestern yahoo group. Several of the members there are active at this board such as myself, CG Tower and Powell Wye. A former B&O employee on the old Wellston Sub has been an incredible source of info and pictures. Another member's father retired from the DT&I. Mix that together with the memories of those of that lived in the area in the 1960s through present day.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/bosw_list/

CG Tower's DT&I site is another great source of info:
http://cg-tower.com/dti/

More later...

Looking forward to it. You recall the kind of details that I would if I could

[MSchwiebert]

I had heard that the piggyback traffic during the GT days was from CSX with it taking the GT to avoid Toledo (early runs used Chessie/CSX power as well). I have not seen any documentation to prove this however.

[midland sub]

I don't think there was a lot of traffic left between Waverly and Jackson after 1982 and the abandonment of the Ironton Branch. I believe most of the traffic was to the car shops in Jackson. The car shop was closed in late March of 1984 and the last train ran soon afterward and the line abandoned. Any older cars that weren't cut up for scrap in Jackson were taken north and stored on the old passing siding on the south end of Wash CH. There was around a mile or so of mostly 40 and 50 ft boxcars stored there for a couple of years before finally being scrapped. This is where most of the bad information on the line south of Springfield starts. The general assumption was made by an author of a certain DT&I book that once the Jackson shops closed, traffic stopped moving south of Springfield. Everyone else basically repeats it.

Next big change came on May 30, 1985. The Chessie System sells 14 miles of the old B&O Wellston Sub from Wash CH south to Frankfort to the GTW. GTW ownership began just east of the industrial park lead in Wash CH and ended just before the switch into the Budd Automotive (brake parts) plant in Frankfort. It becomes part of the Springfield Sub for GTW along with new mileposts based on the DT&I. Line is rehabbed with new ties and ballast. No changes from Frankfort to Musselman and then to Chillicothe and beyond other than the removal of through trains off of the Ohio Div. in August of 1985 by CSX. Why did GTW buy those 14 miles? By June of 1981 when the DT&I started using the old Wellston Sub the line was only being used by an occasional grain train of the B&O local out of Wash CH to switch a feed dealer a couple of miles south of town and the Budd plant in Frankfort. The Budd plant stopped using rail in 1983 and the feed dealer in early 1985 which ended any need for CSX to keep that section on the line, thus the sale to GTW. At that point operations smoothed out to a daily (except maybe Sunday?) 476/477 to Greggs and Glen Jean/Waverly and the unit coal trains from CSX @ Greggs.

Sept 20, 1986 was the beginning of the end for GTW operations south of Springfield. The Scioto River bridge on the Renick Sub just east of Chillicothe was taken out of service after one of the piers slipped. With the bridge out of service and not to be repaired the GTW was forced to use the old B&O main east of Chillicothe for several miles where the old B&O Wellston line again connected to the Ohio Div. A several mile shove move was then required over the line to reach the C&O @ Vauces and vice versa on the return trip. After about 3 months of this the GTW and NS made an agreement to move the coal and coke traffic interchange to Toledo. The 476/477 continued to operate to Greggs and Glen Jean until March of 1987 when the remaining traffic was moved to the Toledo interchange. Everything south of Springfield was placed up for abandonment shortly after.

GTW continued to run south to Wash Ch from Springfield until Nov 1990 when the line was sold to the newly formed WESTCO Port Authority. Until then GTW and CSX interchanged grain traffic and occasionally other traffic @ the Fayne interchange. I remember seeing a couple GTW locos at Fayne in April of 1990 dropping off a couple of tank cars. After WESTCO acquired the line the I&O became the designated operator.

[bnsf8000]

Thanks Midland for all historical/chronological info. I have found it all to be a very interesting read. From earlier up to the I&O. Thanks again. PW

[AARR]

Thanks Midland for all historical/chronological info. I have found it all to be a very interesting read. From earlier up to the I&O. Thanks again. PW

Same hear midland. Great reading material! Thanks.