Super long CN trains.

[AARR]

CSX_CO I don't believe your statement is necessarily true. CN runs 12,000 ft trains on their single track section of the Flint sub. The shortest siding is Lapeer at 10,000 feet or so.

Flint Sub has longer sidings in Lansing, Durand, and Flint IIRC

[Mr. Tops]

CSX_CO I don't believe your statement is necessarily true. CN runs 12,000 ft trains on their single track section of the Flint sub. The shortest siding is Lapeer at 10,000 feet or so.

As long as most of the sidings will fit them. UP Villa Grove Sub (Villa Grove-Chicago) has an 8,000 foot restriction as the shortest siding is Glover at 8,174 feet, but the Pana Sub (St. Louis-Villa Grove) has the same restriction with a 7,734 foot siding in Pana. Never used to get trains over 8,000 feet, at least by much. Then they started running ZYCMX close to 9,000 feet and now MASIH is usually at or over 9,000 feet. The rest of the sidings on the route would be able to eat up anything the could ever imagine running.

[CAT345C]

Running 10,000' trains has proved to be economical for CN. Think about it from a BUSINESS stand point, and remember, the whole point of the business is to make money and be efficient:

Benefits
-Long trains=fewer crews=less labor costs
-Long trains makes for easier dispatching, provided siding lengths are long enough (which they are almost everywhere on CN)
-Long trains allow for better locomotive utilization

Drawbacks
-Difficult train handling
-Blocking railroad crossings for longer periods of time
-Difficult switching

In my opinion CN's long trains are a good business idea. I know the drawbacks, but railroads can teach crews how to deal with long trains in training classes. Most of the bickering has come from conductors and engineers union because the crews simply don't want to do more work than what they absolutely have to. Many crews, not all, just love to complain about stuff because they actually might have to leave the cab for more than 5 minutes.

Crews complain about leaving the cab....no never....
I'm not really sure they factor in how long they are going to block crossings that train is making them more money than than any blocked crossing tickets.

The short amount of time I had at the throttle I've noticed longer trains loaded or mt (100 cars or more) usually handle better than the shorter 30-40cars trains. One time I had to double 80 cars to 90 and that was to say the least interesting. Well that's the end of my two cents of babbling

[redside20]

I know someone has posted this before but I am curious about the stretch of double track from West Flint to Irish Road on the west side of Davison. How smoothly can CN send a land barge through Bristol Yard/Torrey Yard/Flint/Burton/The diamonds with CSX without holding anything up? From end to end how long is the double track and can opposing trains pass each other without delay? I know they've had to hold trains in Durand because of congestion in Flint in the past.

[Norm]

Flint East to Flint West is 11.2 miles assuming the track chart I have is still accurate. Relatively few crossings in that stretch. Durand is 6.74 miles from Byron Rd to Grand River. They should be able to pack a few in those two for meets.

[Typhoon]

Benefits
-Long trains makes for easier dispatching, provided siding lengths are long enough (which they are almost everywhere on CN)

Now that is funny.

[CSX_CO]

CSX_CO I don't believe your statement is necessarily true. CN runs 12,000 ft trains on their single track section of the Flint sub. The shortest siding is Lapeer at 10,000 feet or so.

As long as most of the sidings will fit them. UP Villa Grove Sub (Villa Grove-Chicago) has an 8,000 foot restriction as the shortest siding is Glover at 8,174 feet, but the Pana Sub (St. Louis-Villa Grove) has the same restriction with a 7,734 foot siding in Pana. Never used to get trains over 8,000 feet, at least by much. Then they started running ZYCMX close to 9,000 feet and now MASIH is usually at or over 9,000 feet. The rest of the sidings on the route would be able to eat up anything the could ever imagine running.

Further south, the UP Salem Sub has a 9000' restriction southbound. It was 8000' but they lengthened it to 9000' a year or two ago. We'd run 8000'+ to Salem on Q239 if the auto part set off would get the train below 8000' for south of Salem though. No NB restriction I'm aware of. I've been on some really long trains coming north off the Salem side.

The rest of what you said is why they have length restrictions set to the SHORTEST siding.

CSX_CO I don't believe your statement is necessarily true. CN runs 12,000 ft trains on their single track section of the Flint sub. The shortest siding is Lapeer at 10,000 feet or so.

Good for them. For the reasons stated above, I would bet somewhere they have a length restriction for one direction on the sub. Either that, or they just hold traffic where it will fit, which is even more inefficient to operations.

Practice Safe CSX

[AARR]

CSX_CO I don't believe your statement is necessarily true. CN runs 12,000 ft trains on their single track section of the Flint sub. The shortest siding is Lapeer at 10,000 feet or so.

Good for them. For the reasons stated above, I would bet somewhere they have a length restriction for one direction on the sub. Either that, or they just hold traffic where it will fit, which is even more inefficient to operations.

Practice Safe CSX

I believe you are correct, CSX, that CN will hold trains where they will fit when both trains exceed siding length. I believe typically on the Flint Sub (Battle Creek - Port Huron approx. 160-170 miles) those locations are Lansing, Durand, and Flint. The dispatchers seem to do a decent job getting them across the road, though, to their credit.

[Toppysager]

Pretty normal for Z247 to run that long. I've seen it with 219 cars once.

What's the longest train you've ever seen NS or CSX run? I saw a 215 car intermodal train in 2009, but nothing near that on NS.

[JStryker722]

Pretty normal for Z247 to run that long. I've seen it with 219 cars once.

What's the longest train you've ever seen NS or CSX run? I saw a 215 car intermodal train in 2009, but nothing near that on NS.

I think ~8-9,000ft is the longest trains I ever saw on the NS and that was the ex-NYC where it is double track with cross overs. Not much call for sidings except for local traffic from what I've seen except around Elkhart/Goshen (as far as NE Indiana/NW Ohio is concerned )

[Toppysager]

Pretty normal for Z247 to run that long. I've seen it with 219 cars once.

What's the longest train you've ever seen NS or CSX run? I saw a 215 car intermodal train in 2009, but nothing near that on NS.

I think ~8-9,000ft is the longest trains I ever saw on the NS and that was the ex-NYC where it is double track with cross overs. Not much call for sidings except for local traffic from what I've seen except around Elkhart/Goshen (as far as NE Indiana/NW Ohio is concerned )

I know the longest NS I've seen # of cars wise is 180 in Marion, but it was a coal train. In actual foot length I saw a 172 car intermodal in Toledo that was probably 10,000 ft.

[penn central]

The biggest CN train i ever saw was 391 departing Flat Rock with 13'500 feet of train back in 2008 i chased him as far as Milwaukee Jct.

[Saturnalia]

I have logged a 162-car NS Intermodal Train at Porter, and of course the 189-car monster mighty Marquette manifest they barged home from Grand Rapids.

[CSX_CO]

I have logged a 162-car NS Intermodal Train at Porter, and of course the 189-car monster mighty Marquette manifest they barged home from Grand Rapids.

Are you counting tubs/hitches or actual couplers? Big difference between the two.

In all my years I've never seen a 132 "car" intermodal. Even the longest trains I've been on (14,000 to 15,000 ft) weren't "132 cars". Tubs maybe, but tubs don't equal cars. I even had the 'luxury' of walking one of those behemoths between CP 8 and CP 9 in Cleveland through the tunnels.

Practice Safe CSX

[AARR]

I have logged a 162-car NS Intermodal Train at Porter, and of course the 189-car monster mighty Marquette manifest they barged home from Grand Rapids.

Are you counting tubs/hitches or actual couplers? Big difference between the two.

In all my years I've never seen a 132 "car" intermodal. Even the longest trains I've been on (14,000 to 15,000 ft) weren't "132 cars". Tubs maybe, but tubs don't equal cars. I even had the 'luxury' of walking one of those behemoths between CP 8 and CP 9 in Cleveland through the tunnels.

Practice Safe CSX

I understand what you're saying, CSX, but I always count each individual well as a car even though they may be in groups of 3-5 so the railroad would count them as one car. IIRC there is a term to differentiate between the "railroad" number and "railfan" number. Is it "hard count" or something like that?

[MagnumForce]

Platforms vs cars

[Toppysager]

I have logged a 162-car NS Intermodal Train at Porter, and of course the 189-car monster mighty Marquette manifest they barged home from Grand Rapids.

Are you counting tubs/hitches or actual couplers? Big difference between the two.

In all my years I've never seen a 132 "car" intermodal. Even the longest trains I've been on (14,000 to 15,000 ft) weren't "132 cars". Tubs maybe, but tubs don't equal cars. I even had the 'luxury' of walking one of those behemoths between CP 8 and CP 9 in Cleveland through the tunnels.

Practice Safe CSX

Down in Marion a couple of years ago. A long CSX manifest got stuck over the diamond because the coupler snapped and the train split in two. I remember about 90-95 individual wagons or unit cars had already gone through. The guy on the radio said it was 164 cars long so I'm guessing they were referring to the actual number of individual cars, as if it was platforms that would be like 3 miles long. So I think railroads must use both to quantify lengths of trains.

[railohio]

CSX manifest

Bad example. Outside of intermodal, articulated freight cars are rare.

[Standard Railfan]

CSX manifest

Bad example. Outside of intermodal, articulated freight cars are rare.

The DMIR, LSI,and BNSF have in the past run 3 or 4 ore jennies semi-permanently coupled together with drawbars.

[JStryker722]

Still makes articulated freight cars the exception rather than rule lol

CSX manifest

Bad example. Outside of intermodal, articulated freight cars are rare.

The DMIR, LSI,and BNSF have in the past run 3 or 4 ore jennies semi-permanently coupled together with drawbars.