NS Peavine talk

[northstar16]

I have always admired NS back in the day when they cared about their customers. Looking at the news the last few weeks I say now it is all about the bottom line. If they don't keep good relations with their customers they will go to another rail or to another form of transportation. Building business relationships is very important in any business. It appears now NS has lost that sense of doing business. I feel sorry for the men and women who have worked their butt off to make NS what it is today only to stand on the unemployment line when the pick slips are being passed out in the coming weeks. I agree 100% with Muleskinner the top brass the ones who are playing golf and not holding their own need to go. Not the guys on the rails who are working 8 hours a day giving 100% in the cold and hot. I read a while back that no managers have been let go. What is up with that? When GE chops they let top bass go the ones who don't perform. P&G requires a six day work week on staff on salary in the upper brass. Performance is a key to a solid business

Yet as M D Bentley said that is business and yes many companies do the same thing all about the bottom line making the shareholders happy at the expense of the little guy. Still not a good way to run a railroad in my opinion.

[northstar16]

This is the kind of stuff that just won't go away. This Bill Ackman is trying every angle to get CP in the door. For a while there he was trying to get P&G to sell out. This guy is always looking to take over a company working shareholders and other companies for a take over. Ackman feels the management at NS is weak not well organized and needs to merge to stay afloat. He is making a statement and it just won't go away.


Canadian Pacific Chief Executive Officer Hunter Harrison has said that merging with Norfolk Southern would increase efficiency by creating a coast-to-coast railroad -- reducing the need to exchange cars in congested hubs such as Chicago. The combined railroad also would be able to wring out cost savings and improve service, said Harrison, who has the support of Canadian Pacific investor Bill Ackman.

The Canadian carrier’s proposal “introduces a number of positive, future-focused ideas to vastly improve North America’s transportation network,” Dakota Plains President Gabe Claypool wrote in a letter dated Jan. 15. A merger “would improve overall service while creating meaningful competition” among the country’s biggest railroads, he said. There can be a lag between when letters are sent and when they are posted by the transportation board

[Paw95]

https://youtu.be/_UCMG00JDlg

This video is from the good old days when NW ran things on the Peavine.

Its sad to see things now the way they are in railroading!

i film this section all the time. i do the signals, railbed slip at rushtown ,crossings, and all i can film of it.

[northstar16]

Paw I noticed you said that NS was trimming trees on the east end of the Peavine. I have you see NS hi railer crew up there cutting trees or are you assuming they are cutting trees. I just can't see NS spending crews hours cutting trees when in fact NS is cutting hourly employees as it is. I saw a video it might have been yours showing the east part of the Peavine and it looks like nothing has been on the rails there for years. All rusty tracks look to be in bad shape. According to Midland Sub you best be taking plenty of videos out there while you still have track out that way before the scrap guys start pulling the lines. Midland said that the Peavine is done up that way. Might be done all the way down by the end of next year.

[midland sub]

East of the quarry at Plum Run to Vera is more than likely going to be abandoned. The rest will stay status quo. Unit ethanol or oil train is at Clare to be placed in storage.

The person that farms underneath the approach spans at Vera cut those trees. The only way to access some of the land is the path under the bridge. There are several NS MOW employees that live east of Portsmouth out along the Peavine. I wouldn't be surprised if they clean up an occasional tree limb that has fallen. One of them also discovered the CCET shoved cars farther then they were allowed last spring.

[midland sub]

There's the best and most honest answer there is to the Peavine. The Conrail split doomed the line and what small amount of traffic the line had before 1998, Logistics is a lot like the flow of water, it takes the course of least resistance as best it can. NS was smart to route anything it could via the Dayton Dist and Columbus versus keeping the line. If the shortest route was the best the B&O from St Louis to Cumberland would be humming along and in place to this day.

The February Railfan & Railroad has nice article on the CCET. Fills in some of the details of the last few years after the Conrail split.

As bad as it sounds. It is a business decision and nothing more. Regardless of how the railfan community feels, they ( the RR's ) must keep the stockholders happy. If and when traffic increases and the route is needed again, trains will reappear on the Peavine.............
OR you can hike/bike/walk the Peavine mountain trail......

[northstar16]

Midland quick question can the CCET store cars at Clare Yard? I know they have several rails in the yard the rarely get used by NS unless they are staying there for the business they have down on the west end of Clare. I guess the place is still in operation. It was Balkmatic I do believe not sure if that is still there or been bought out. Not sure if the CCET can store on in the yard down there or not since that is owned by NS but since NS doesn't use that yard seams to be a waste of space and they should just let the CCET use the yard as a staging area. instead of going all the way out to Broadwell Road.

Another quick question is NS going to know down the long trestle they have over the Oasis line and old Red Bank Road? The rail is no longer in service going to be a bike path I do believe. Surely people aren't going to walk and bike on top of that bridge. That would cost a pretty penny to take down.

[midland sub]

No the CCET begins at MP 9 I think.

The city of Cincinnati is going to or already has purchased that branch. They will modify the bridge deck into some sort of safer and wider platform with fencing on it.

[northstar16]

MP nine so where is that? Must be on the same side of the tracks as Clare Yard maybe where the bridge goes over the Miami River. I see there are cars down on the siding today. I did see last week a NS engine parked on the siding and the two engineers got off the train to get a quick bite to eat at McDonald' s.

That long bridge over Red Bank will need to be widen pretty much. The city is going to spend a pretty penny there and yes it will need a large rail so nobody falls over. I'm glad the city bought that bridge many of car have been damaged by kids tossing rocks and stick down below the bridge.

[heypal6878]

I was down by Clare Yard today and yes there are about 15 freight cars sitting there most likely going up to the Paper plant in Batavia this week. No tankers that I seen unless they are in the siding at Clare. Yes the old Bulkmatic company is still on the west end of the Clare Yard but the company has been renamed but the still have product transported by NS. The CCET doesn't haul anything for the company back there.

The CCET cannot store any cars in Clare Yard. NS brings cars for the CCET and stores them on the east side rail just east of Clare Yard. I think the 9 mile maker starts at the North end of the Clare bridge that is where the CCET can take the cars out east or bring them back for NS to take back to Sharon Yard. There is a short siding just south of the Clare Yard bridge that the CCET has store a line of cars there from time to time. That siding ends at Clear Creek. You can check Google maps for a better view.

[heypal6878]

Here is a late breaking news release that may help the Peavine in the future. Looks like rail can be used there as the land is right next to the Peavine.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2 ... /79650220/

[heypal6878]

This industrial park is an interesting development as for years there has been talk about trying to source a large manufacturing business to come spread out somewhere along the Peavine for rail transport. Bob Proud has been pretty busy today after the news so I haven't been able to talk to him. I do know that no major company has announced development in the area as of today. The Commissioners of Clermont County have been looking at a few possibilities in the last two years with no luck so far. Apparently there is major interest now as the development there is going forward.

For the Peavine this could mean more rail transport if the right business develops there. This is all up in the air until an announcement is made. The Commissioners wanted to develop a industrial park somewhere close to the Peavine just to draw a major company in the area just in case the company would need rail transport. This will be a ten year project so hopefully the State put some pressure on NS to continue the lease with the CCET or another rail to keep the Peavine open. Who knows what NS or the Peavine will look like in 10 more years.

[northstar16]

Heypal very interesting link there about the industrial park on the old NS rail line. You may have a point there and a big one at that. The State of Ohio will recommend NS to continue to hold on to the Peavine and service any potential manufacturing development that may relocate in that area around the rail line. I heard when I was in Fl a few months ago that Kia is thinking about building a unit in Ohio. I had lunch with several people including the US Sales Manager for Kia in Naples last month and this was brought to my attention. It was still up in the air on the location but Kia needs railroad access along with highway access and wants to be away from any major city. Ohio is offering big business some incentives to locate their offices or manufacturing operations in the State. It would be great if Clermont County and the State of Ohio can pull off a major business like Kia to come to this part of the State.

Meanwhile this looks very promising for the CCET and for the Peavine on the west side of the line. Funny after you posted this all the boo birds went away. Guess they are chewing on what to say next.

Thanks for the info.

[OSRR]

Certainly good news. Southern Ohio has lost so much industry over the years, it's always good to see some sort of development.

[Paw95]

I'm going to download a new video of this line today the east end of it. Called M.P. 97-96. It's like 7 minutes.

[MSchwiebert]

Not to burst a bubble on the industrial park, but what differentiates this location from (for example) Wapakoneta, or Van Wert? They too are also near major highways (I-75 and US-30 Respectively) and haven't lived up to their intent yet either. To go with that, I'd be surprised if there are any more "greenfield" car assembly plants built in the US after Volvo completes theirs in the Carolinas. Even if there were, odds are they wouldn't be located in a state that doesn't have a SEC football team. Having a site is just the beginning, what's the workforce situation like? what kind of training/education tools are available? While this may offend some, (especially for a "transplant" for an Asian mfg.) what's the sentiment toward labor organization? How does the rest of the infrastructure (gas, power etc.) rate compare to other sites and so on. Certainly lots more to consider than just being able to put together options on a couple thousand acres of farmland.....

[midland sub]

The ground in question in Clermont County is just east of the former Ford plant. It's nowhere near the size anyone would be interested in building an automotive assembly plant at. It will make a nice small to medium sized industrial park to develop. Take a gander at Wash CH on Google maps and look at the industrial park on the southeast side of town. CSX did a fantastic job recruiting both Lowes and now Domtar into building there. Looking to land the giant company is just a horrible development strategy. They are as rare as hen teeth and if and when you do, you've now set yourself up for a future heartbreak anytime after the first 5 years and the company goes out of business or downsizes. Look at the effect of DHL walking away from Wilmington as their US sort facility. In reality it cost the area of every bit of 14,000 jobs. DHL had 8,000 people employed at Wilmington. There was another 2,500 jobs just to support DHL. But it had a lingering effect. Honda wanted to build the Civic plant at Jeffersonville and not Greensburg. Indiana gave Honda great incentives, but the actual reason Honda chose Greensburg was DHL had sucked up the entire desirable job force for the area. Honda knew they would struggle as they continue to do at Marysville to hire employable people. Jeffersonville fit better into Honda's supplier chain plus was about an hour from Marysville. So instead of getting the 3,500 jobs the Civic plant would have created you add that to what was lost when DHL left. So why not attract several small to medium companies instead?

As for the Kia rumor. Michael and myself have long histories in the automotive industry. He is spot on about the future of new automotive assembly plants in the US. If you look at how Kia/Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan, VW and Honda have designed and built their latest plants in the US you see what the next 25 to 50 years holds. All of them have purchased the land and designed the plants that future expansion will happen at the current plants. For example you brought up Kia/Hyundai. Indeed they are supposedly going to build more vehicles in the US but it's going to be expansion at either the Alabama or Georgia plants. But the last I knew they chose Mexico to build the Forte and Elantra. But the last I read last summer was if and when Kia/Hyundai moved forward in the US it will be either Alabama or Georgia.

[heypal6878]

I did talk to Bob today he didn't say anything about Kia or any other car manufacture building a plant in the new industrial park. He did mention they have been in contact with several potential business plans that want to build next to the rail line as they will need transportation and don't want to use trucking. Bob said this is where the State needs to come in and make sure NS doesn't want to pull the plug on the Peavine as there has been some speculation this past few months that is where NS is moving towards. Several meetings are planned in the next few months between the State and Clermont County to see where this is all headed.

So from what I heard today no automobile manufacture is planning on moving their operations here. Midland is correct a major company like Honda or Toyota needs plenty of space to expand. There isn't anyplace to go where this property is now so pretty land locked. We shall see where this all goes in the next few months but this is good news for the Peavine long term that is if NS doesn't pull the plug or run the CCET off the line.

[CSX_CO]

When it comes to those industrial parks, every one says they want rail service, but few actually get it. With NS setting rates, and their current attitudes towards loose car traffic, they'll just price it sky high to discourage new business, pull the line, and save the expenses.

[midland sub]

CSX_CO it's like a written echo here. Same stuff we said a year ago reverberating back now.....