NS Peavine talk

[Paw95]

Yeah I haven't seen any thing lately. I'll go paint me some more marks on the rail sometime soon also.

[heypal6878]

The CCET continues to be very busy on the west side of the Peavine. Looks like they are moving freight and tankers four days a week to several locations on the track for storage or up to the Ag. I was talking to the crew that moves tankers and cars to the siding at Clare for the CCET to move east and they tell me not much is known about what NS is going to do with the abandon tracks out east. At first NS was gun ho about selling the tackage or just junking it taking it all up but now it appears that is all sitting on the burner. According to what they heard a few months back the State of Ohio wants to hold back on any transactions on the east tracks by NS. This is much different than what I have read on this board and others.

Yet the NS engineers told me they are the last to hear what the pencil pushers are doing with any unused trackage. They just push the cars from one spot to another but did say NS is pleased with what the CCET has done with the business out east and as long as NS gets enough money out of the deal the CCET will continue to work the track.

[midland sub]

Sometime in July NS is supposed to start filing more stuff. More secondary lines are supposed to be leased out like the WV Secondary. Marketing dept is making most of the decisions on everything and Corp just follows whatever they decide. NS will be dropping the tracks speeds to 25 or less on any secondary lines they end up keeping if they haven't already.

If Frontier wasn't doing the storage business they are it's not likely the lease would have been renewed back in April. Hyumataki and Winchester together doesn't pay the bills. Doesn't sound like anything else is being developed by Frontier either other than jamming every track available with storage cars.

[northstar16]

Midland you hit the hammer right on the nail. The CET is getting most of their business on storage and very little on the Ag right now. That will pick up as the season begins in September yet storage is where the CET is making some money. If they didn't have storage they would be gone by now. Not sure why the G&W just doesn't take over the line as they already run on the Undercliff a few days per week. That would be extra business for them.

Just don't think the CET is going to get anymore out of the line out east. That new industrial park will take years to build out east and really they may not be any need for rail traffic unless the local government out there can get a large company to fill the space along the rail

[midland sub]

G&W nor Corman wanted the line and for a good reason. Frontier makes most if not all of their revenue across their lines from car storage. Hire a couple full time people at most that are willing to do whatever and a couple more to work part time with no benefits. Let the line fall down into exempt status with minimal mainentance other than cutting brush at crossings. Move cars from the active customers a couple times a week. It works for them and a few other small seat of the pants operations. Storage cars will eventually go away so there's no real investment if they pull out. The G&W and Corman type companies aren't interested in this arrangement. Maybe something will come along, maybe not. At least this keeps part of the line active and in use.

[heypal6878]

Yup the east side of the line from Clare to the Ag is in pretty good shape. Ties and rails look pretty good. Signals well some work some don't, some work but get stuck. The highrailer with a small crew up there fixing things that need attention but overall the track don't see much maintenance from the CCET. Hope they can pick up a few more accounts but if the Ag is ever sold, relocates or goes out of business the line is pretty much toast.

[heypal6878]

Here is something I pulled off of the Yahoo forum today about the Peavine. Found it to be a very interesting read not sure if any of this is confirmed or not but it is new news.





I have been looking at a Indian railroad forum site the last few days. There is a thread stated there about the Peavine. It appears from what I read there might be something coming in the pipeline on the Peavine to get that rail up and running again. The cost is going to be unreal millions. They will need new rails, new bridge new signals and a host of other things. The rail is in bad shape up past Afton.

Below is a post I copied tonight.


I work for NS. The peavine was brought up yesterday at work with a couple of train masters. From a Lake Division, Train master and road foreman. They both heard the assistant superintendent say themselves, in a meeting two weeks ago that the peavine will open again. They can't promise a time frame but it will open again. The traffic from Cincinnati to Columbus, Columbus to Bellevue is too congested. They weren't smart enough when they built Bellevue's second hump to add for receiving tracks. So they can't even get trains into Bellevue. They should open up Buckeye in my opinion. Because the trains that don't make it to Bellevue or Columbus, go to buckeye

[midland sub]

You make my head hurt. That post was FROM NOVEMBER 2014. That was right before coal traffic really fell off and CP and Akerman showed up at 3 Commercial Place in Norfolk looking like the characters of the any of The Purge movies (google it). You have a better chance buying a Mega Millions lottery ticket and winning than seeing NS reopen the line. The Columbus District from Portsmouth to Columbus on a good day might hit 20 trains at most now. The Dayton Dist is even less than that. You can't justify in any way shape or form returning the line to service... Common on just let it die and let it be what it going to be: a parking lot of stored cars.... If there ever, ever, ever was a reason to do something east of Peebles or Plum Run it will be whored out to the CCET. They will bilk the state of Ohio for the millions upon millions to fix the line.

A happier note there's allegedly former MRL SD45 #318 is heading to the CCET go replace one of the GP49 that has mechanical problems.

[heypal6878]

I have been looking on the Indiana rail sites tonight to see if I can find that post and no luck. I didn't think it was true as I know a guy who works for NS in Atlanta and he has a high level position with them. He keeps me in the loop if he hears something. Lately he hasn't heard anything about the Peavine only that the CCET is working it hard with storage. He did confirm a three weeks ago that NS has no interest of retaining the line past Plum Road and that NS will never run their trains on that line again. It will only be leased out from now on out until the money on the line dries up. Currently NS is getting some revenue on the line enough to pay for a crew to deliver cars to Clare for the CET mostly storage and a great deal of business from the Ag. If the Ag ever decides to contract with a trucking company or goes out of business that will be the end of the Peavine.

So the rail is hanging on by a thin string. It needs a major company that wants rail transport for the rail to be profitable. We shall see if the State of Ohio can land a major company up east to save the line.

[Muleskinner]

You make my head hurt.

Maybe General Electric out in Peebles will use the line to have their jet engines delivered for testing!!! NOT!!

Just having fun. Don't take it personal.

[midland sub]

Whether or not Winchester Ag ever ships another car is no consequence to Frontier at this point. CCET is raking in $30-40k a month in just storage fees. None of that money is shared with NS. What adding Winchester Ag did was open up substantially more storage room for them. So if Winchester ships the 600 cars a year they supposedly might do at let's say the $300 a car NS pays CCET that's not a lot of money spread across a year. But again being able to go all the way to currently Seaman really opened up the storage revenue. As long as Frontier can shove a string a cars as far as they can those tracks will stay in place.

[heypal6878]

So NS doesn't get any money from the CET on storage of cars. NS is bringing them to Clare surely they get some kind of take for transportation of the cars to the siding for the CET to pick up? I agree I guess with the storage business so good right now the Ag is chump change to the CCET. 30 or 40K is good money for the CCET just for storage and I must say they are busy hauling cars and tankers up east. Their sidings are full up past Batavia. When you get up to Plum Road the tracks are not very good up that way. A derail could be likely past Plum Road. The ties up there are rotten and there is some slippage and water damage up there as well. One thing the CCET doesn't need is a derail. They already had one due to vandals up that way. That could have been much worse.

On another note I see Clare Yard is well lite up at night. Never noticed that before but did some fishing last night down in the Little Miami and noticed that Clare Yard is well lighted.

[midland sub]

NS charges the car owner whatever it costs to move the storage cars from wherever they are interchanged to NS and then to Clare.

[Paw95]

Has anyone ever seen the rail bed slip in rush town at about mp 99. I have and it's a hell of a slide. That has to be the worst part of the line but much in this direction still looks decent.

[OSRR]

CCET is raking in $30-40k a month in just storage fees.

That's pretty good money for not much work (not working an active customer).

Why is it that more shortlines don't do this? Like the Ohio South Central for example (although, I've read of rumors they were clearing track south of Oak Hill for this purpose).

[heypal6878]

With the problem NS, CSX and other larger railroads are having with loss of oil and coal transportation due to a slower market you would think that these railroads would also get into the storage business to pick a little of the revenue that they lost. The CCET for the most part on the Peavine is just moving cars from one spot to another for storage and like Midland said they are getting 30 to 40K not all that bad for little work. I'm sure that NS does store some cars here in Ohio and elsewhere but wow that is pretty darn good money.

[AARR]

E&LS has miles of stored cars in MI's UP. However, whenever they have to retrieve stored cars it can be a lot of work when the cars are deep in a cut several miles long.

[MSchwiebert]

They do - in a different sort of way. They store their own cars that aren't needed as a way of avoiding the expense of paying someone else to do it. I'm sure that there are lines back in the hills and hollows of West Virginia, Eastern Kentucky etc. that once served shut down coal mines that are jammed full of hopper cars that probably will never turn a wheel again. That said, the class ones also have to balance things out as well - once it becomes clear that a line will never contribute again, the abandonment proceedings will be forthcoming because even with the cost avoidance of storing home road cars on it, it's still a burden to the bottom line that has to be dealt with.

With the problem NS, CSX and other larger railroads are having with loss of oil and coal transportation due to a slower market you would think that these railroads would also get into the storage business to pick a little of the revenue that they lost. The CCET for the most part on the Peavine is just moving cars from one spot to another for storage and like Midland said they are getting 30 to 40K not all that bad for little work. I'm sure that NS does store some cars here in Ohio and elsewhere but wow that is pretty darn good money.

[midland sub]

There's cherry picking fees in the storage agreements when the owner asks for a particular car(s) to be pulled and returned for service. For example Frontier gets cars interchanged for storage at Clare. Frontier charges the owner a switch fee to pick them up at Clare and a fee to place them in storage. When the cars are removed from storage Frontier charges the owner the same fees. It's usually pretty expensive for the owner to ask for particular cars to be switched out of storage. The car owner does not get charged anything for CCET moving stuff around to maximize room. As I've said before there's different fees for cars placard for hazmat. That's where Frontier is making most of their money. Most of those ethanol and oil service tank cars are coming straight into storage and not first going to a company that cleans the residual material out of each car. In reality there's probably nothing left in the cars, but fed regulations require them to be cleaned before the placard can come off. The owners don't want to spend the money to have them cleaned so they pay a couple dollars more per day and car for them being placard.

E&LS has miles of stored cars in MI's UP. However, whenever they have to retrieve stored cars it can be a lot of work when the cars are deep in a cut several miles long.

[midland sub]

I was just having the same conversation with someone about why isn't the OSCR storing cars. US Rail used to do some decent business storing cars on the Jackson lines. Every year they would do the seasonal LP tank cars for a couple of months. They had two DEEX unit coal train sets in storage south of Jackson where OSCR just cleared off the right of way. The old yard at Wellston by the fairgrounds can hold quite a few cars. I don't know if they want the track project from Hamden to Jackson completed first or the hassle of CSX getting them to deliver anything to Vauces. Same thing with the Indiana Eastern. There's almost no traffic north of Cottage Grove to Richmond. I don't think the scrap place in Richmond gets anything. All that's left would be 2 small fertilizer dealers.

CCET is raking in $30-40k a month in just storage fees.

That's pretty good money for not much work (not working an active customer).

Why is it that more shortlines don't do this? Like the Ohio South Central for example (although, I've read of rumors they were clearing track south of Oak Hill for this purpose).