Possible Railroad Strike
-
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 pm
Possible Railroad Strike
I have been reading about a possible railroad strike for months and it appears that something needs to get done here soon or there will be a strike. Question? Is the I&O and the CCET union or are short-line railroad workers non-union?
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
lacking success in mediation or congressional action they could be in position to strike in September. https://www.politico.com/newsletters/we ... e-00046285heypal6878 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:53 amI have been reading about a possible railroad strike for months and it appears that something needs to get done here soon or there will be a strike.
If a short line work force is union or non-union is up to them.heypal6878 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:53 amIs the I&O and the CCET union or are short-line railroad workers non-union?
https://teamster.org/2017/05/blet-tenta ... o-railway/
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
The IORY is a union property, not sure about the CCET though it's likely not. The strike would only directly affect the carriers governed under the national agreement but would have a drastic impact as far as shortlines not receiving cars from interchange among other things. That said, a strike is unfortunately not likely to happen as the PEB is solely there to resolve this issue and even if they can't, congress would still(scarily enough) have a crack at a resolution.
I'm just here to put in time claims and complain
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
Interesting that it has been stated in this thread that it’s unfortunate a railroad strike is not likely. Why?
How does a strike help inflation?
How does a strike help inflation?
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
It doesn't, my opinion as well as a lot of others, is that railroad workers have been continuously being screwed over for the better part of two decades while corporations boast record profits. Wages have already not been keeping up with inflation for the type of work being performed and the lifestyle being lived by all front line railroad employees and corporations refuse to negotiate in good faith which is why we are in the position we are. A strike would show the nation(that still doesn't seem to understand or care) that employees are serious about bettering their compensation for missing out on their families lives and destroying their own health to keep this country moving.
I'm just here to put in time claims and complain
- redcrumbox
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:39 pm
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
A strike would make the foemers go insane and they would upload more Train Simulator vids on youtube. So I pray their is no strike.
Old EMD’s are the gift that keeps on giving.
-
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:50 am
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
I hate talking politics, but the only way this is settled fairly once and for all is for there to be a strike that the general public feels. The PEB likely goes nowhere - the gulf between carrier and labor is huge. So on/around 9/15 when cooling off period ends, labor can strike (or carriers can lock labor out). Normally, the President will issue an emergency executive order ending the strike/lockout and the dispute goes to Congress for them to impose a new contract. Labor’s only hope is that the (R)’s are very tight or ahead in the polls in some key Congressional districts the (D)’s fear loosing. 6 weeks before mid-term elections, the (D)’s and Executive Branch are going to be very concerned about the optics of appearing to abandon organized labor in favor of big business, and there is a CHANCE a strike could happen. That is the only hope for labor to prevail. As soon as it goes to Congress, it’s game over - carriers win. Chances of a labor friendly contract coming out of Congress are slim. If the carrier don’t exert influence of the (D)’s uncle Warren has bought and paid for, the (R)’s will just filibuster until the new Congress is sworn in come January.
IORY is BLET. CIND is (or at least was) SMART. CCET in non-union. IORY AND CIND will not go on strike as they are not part of the National Agreement. (CP is US in not part of National Agreement either, at least on BLE side I THINK - is that correct???) However, I believe IORY/CIND members will be able to honor the picket lines and not operate onto the class 1s. So for example, an IORY Union crew can bring a loaded stone train down from Melvin, but it would be up to an IORY management crew to get it through Queensgate and onto the CIND.
IORY is BLET. CIND is (or at least was) SMART. CCET in non-union. IORY AND CIND will not go on strike as they are not part of the National Agreement. (CP is US in not part of National Agreement either, at least on BLE side I THINK - is that correct???) However, I believe IORY/CIND members will be able to honor the picket lines and not operate onto the class 1s. So for example, an IORY Union crew can bring a loaded stone train down from Melvin, but it would be up to an IORY management crew to get it through Queensgate and onto the CIND.
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
And here you are commenting about it.redcrumbox wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:04 pmA strike would make the foemers go insane and they would upload more Train Simulator vids on youtube. So I pray their is no strike.
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
As a general reply to your post, I'm not so sure the old conventional wisdom stands quite like it used to. While the public sector unions such as the teacher's unions have continued their extremely close relationship with the Democrats, the private sector unions are moving away from the Democrats and closer to the Republicans. Much of this honestly has to do with President Trump's political movement, which really accelerated the movement of blue collar workers towards the right. Many blue collar workers feel left behind by a DNC whose policies on trade and environmentalism run counter to their industries - craft labor does want their industry to succeed, after all. Therefore, I think we might be surprised just how it all shakes out.
Also, I don't think the PEB and Congress will in any case view the matter as favorable to the carriers as may have historically been the case, seeing as how the major railroads have just inked the most profitable decade in the industry's history. Sure, in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s the railroads could plead poor, but after years of trumpeting their great financial success and 30-40% profit margins, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that the union's positions are fairly well supported by the success of the industry - and that significant increases in compensation are probably warranted. The profitability of the carriers really undermines their arguments that such compensation increases would harm their bottom line to a significant degree, much less make them unprofitable or uncompetitive with other modes.
And I do think and say this as a manager at a railroad (who has never held a craft position), who voted Trump twice and is generally very pro-business. I will note that the carrier I work for has no horse in this race, we have completely separate agreements for all our crafts, with no agreements presently under negotiation.
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
I disagree with this, they're still leaning far enough left and enough people realize that Ron Batory was a terrible choice for head of the FRA. That said, continuing without politics, I completely agree that the PEB is leaning FAR more towards the side of the unions and based on who is on it I think we can expect to see them release some very pro-union suggestions but I, as well as most others, have no faith in congress to come up with something worth a darn if it should go that far. This mass exodus throughout the industry will only be multiplied if this contract doesn't contain what employees think they deserve driving the supply chain issue further. I have talked to enough ground level employees to be able to tell you that the amount ready to walk out the door will severely hurt the country and with businesses hiring the way they are as far as blue collar jobs go right now, many of them will likely quickly find work elsewhere.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:23 pmAs a general reply to your post, I'm not so sure the old conventional wisdom stands quite like it used to. While the public sector unions such as the teacher's unions have continued their extremely close relationship with the Democrats, the private sector unions are moving away from the Democrats and closer to the Republicans. Much of this honestly has to do with President Trump's political movement, which really accelerated the movement of blue collar workers towards the right. Many blue collar workers feel left behind by a DNC whose policies on trade and environmentalism run counter to their industries - craft labor does want their industry to succeed, after all. Therefore, I think we might be surprised just how it all shakes out.
I'm just here to put in time claims and complain
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
Definitely in agreement with you. To be sure, the private sector unions still lean left (at least at a leadership level), but it definitely isn't where it was even 10-15 years ago.DT&I wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:20 amI have talked to enough ground level employees to be able to tell you that the amount ready to walk out the door will severely hurt the country and with businesses hiring the way they are as far as blue collar jobs go right now, many of them will likely quickly find work elsewhere.
I definitely agree with the above here. And qualified railroaders do not grow on trees, obviously. Sure, most railroad craft jobs can hire entry-level with very little prior experience, but to go a new employee qualified and SAFE takes time, and a lot of it.
So I definitely agree, 100%, that the railroads should be extremely concerned about brain drain from the crafts. They already did a lot to gut the management ranks over the last 5-10 years.
From a political standpoint, I do think there will be a LOT of pressure on the railroads to accept the PEB's recommendations, even if they do "favor" the union positions. If a strike were to occur or become likely, I do not think the American people would tag the unions as responsible. Not even I would - again as a blood-red conservative. Even most conservatives who are "pro-business" like me are not blindly pro-corporation at this point. I don't think it is fully appreciated how much Trumpism changed the paradigm with how people see these things. Conservatives want an environment where business can thrive, but they are no longer solely on the side of big business: they also deeply value the part of blue-collar workers. In fact, it's now split between left and right when it comes to pandering to large corporations and industries, with older, legacy industries leaning more right and the new techy people leaning left. It's crazy how much it's changed in just the last 10-15-20 years or so.
The writing is on the wall: craft labor has only had more demands placed on it, with fewer people to cope, and the railroads are raking in cash like never before. It's time they get a raise accordingly.
-
- i don't give a fark about your PM
- Posts: 3541
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:44 am
- Location: Columbus Ohio
- Contact:
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
Interesting comments but does what does this have to do with ohio railfanning?
Exit stage left
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
The original post was asking about the I&O and CETT.
Not that railroad workers don't have legitimate complaints and the quality of life for extra board people sucks. But things like a 40% increase over 4-5 years will be a hard sell if they count on politicians. Outside of select segments of the economy where they can leverage their membership, unions lost their relevance to the average person a long time ago. Neither the psudo-conservatives of today or the social-democrats will see past a median annual wage of $65k with tax payer protected pensions in a country with a $45k average and fund it yourself 401K's. How many of the on the ground workers are in a financial position to give up their current railroad wages to work at an Amazon distribution center?
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
That's where it'll all come down to what compromise is proposed...is it closer to what the carriers want or to what the unions want?
Either way, you can't double your profit margin while vastly increasing per-employee production without being pressured for significant wage adjustments.
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
That's the problem. You mention the dirtiest of the dirty words in today's society, compromise.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:45 pmThat's where it'll all come down to what compromise is proposed...is it closer to what the carriers want or to what the unions want?
-
- Sofa King follower
- Posts: 6159
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:59 pm
- Location: Toledo, OH.
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
Curious to hear everyone's take on it now that the PEB has released there recommendations.
https://flic.kr/ps/jSuAb My Flickr photos!
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
Haven't seen it yet
-
- Sofa King follower
- Posts: 6159
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:59 pm
- Location: Toledo, OH.
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
https://flic.kr/ps/jSuAb My Flickr photos!
-
- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:50 am
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
On 8/1 on this thread, I said the PEB goes nowhere. I was wrong - it went to worse than nowhere. Addressed some pay issues, but punted most quality of life issues and on page 32 of the office transcript dropped this duce in the punch bowl "The Carriers maintain that capital investment and risk are the reasons for their profits, and not any contribution by labor"sd70accsxt700 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:38 pmCurious to hear everyone's take on it now that the PEB has released there recommendations.
PEB recommendations will get voted down by the rank and file by a margin of 6:1 or greater. Chances of a fair compromise coming out of Congress are very slim - when push comes to campaign contribution shove, I see BOTH sides of the isle putting the overall economy AND their personal/political financial wellbeing over any meaningful change in the overall working conditions.
Furthermore, if the House and/or Senate flip to red (which is very possible), watch for threats of defunding of the DOT and FRA to begin changing rules on crew size.
- Saturnalia
- Authority on Cat
- Posts: 15464
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
- Location: Michigan City, IN
- Contact:
Re: Possible Railroad Strike
If Congress does anything, it’ll be the imposition of the PEB, almost certainly.scraphauler wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:58 pmOn 8/1 on this thread, I said the PEB goes nowhere. I was wrong - it went to worse than nowhere. Addressed some pay issues, but punted most quality of life issues and on page 32 of the office transcript dropped this duce in the punch bowl "The Carriers maintain that capital investment and risk are the reasons for their profits, and not any contribution by labor"sd70accsxt700 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:38 pmCurious to hear everyone's take on it now that the PEB has released there recommendations.
PEB recommendations will get voted down by the rank and file by a margin of 6:1 or greater. Chances of a fair compromise coming out of Congress are very slim - when push comes to campaign contribution shove, I see BOTH sides of the isle putting the overall economy AND their personal/political financial wellbeing over any meaningful change in the overall working conditions.
Furthermore, if the House and/or Senate flip to red (which is very possible), watch for threats of defunding of the DOT and FRA to begin changing rules on crew size.
Honestly I think it’s a decently fair compromise, yea it punts on some issues but ultimately what needs done gets done. Quality of life is a generational debate that will need done over many agreements both Section 6 and otherwise over several years.
Personally I don’t foresee the PEB recommendations, if they become a tentative deal, being voted down by the membership. Everybody talks a good talk in the crew room but these wage increases and massive back pay checks will get votes, once the ballot is in the hand of employees.