MAW and CSX at war again

[MagnumForce]

Believe it or not the MAW replaced a ton of ties and added tons of ballast this year. I believe it has just been let go for so long that without a major major investment it has become untenable.

Little to no maintainence has been performed since N&W got the line in 64 and the line was relegated to secondary and even tertiary status. N&W did nothing, Indiana Hi-Rail did nothing, and the MAW has done nothing.

Paulding, Defiance, and Henry counties are chomping at the bit to buy the line but Wendelin will have none of it. It's his to do as he pleases but I feel the man is jeopardizing interstate commerce, there must be something that can be done.

[redside20]

Believe it or not the MAW replaced a ton of ties and added tons of ballast this year. I believe it has just been let go for so long that without a major major investment it has become untenable.

Little to no maintainence has been performed since N&W got the line in 64 and the line was relegated to secondary and even tertiary status. N&W did nothing, Indiana Hi-Rail did nothing, and the MAW has done nothing.

Paulding, Defiance, and Henry counties are chomping at the bit to buy the line but Wendelin will have none of it. It's his to do as he pleases but I feel the man is jeopardizing interstate commerce, there must be something that can be done.

I don't know the man but this Wendelin guy sounds like a debt collection lawyer, sort of in the mold of Barry Fromm here in Columbus. Do Paulding, Defiance, and Henry County have any Port or Commerce Authority Organizations?

[foamer fotaug]

The MAW will cry poor and get the ORDC to cover their part of the diamond replacement. In the STB filing over the last diamond fiasco it spells out what the MAW is responsible for maintenance wise. I'm fairly certain it's track one like JoJames said in his post. With the way CSX treats their shortline connections sometimes, it is kind of funny to see one stick it right back at them.

Sad part about this is that the money they sink into those diamonds would be of NO BENEFIT AT ALL to them. Figure, the diamonds have ONE purpose. They are there so he can cherry pick storage cars from the east end of that spaghetti-like trackage for the entire length to Cecil.

Operationally, the logistics of those storage cars is an utter nightmare. You have ONE engine on the west end of the MAW, and the only way to get around cars is @ Antwerp or the cement plant (assuming that run-around is still in service).

[MagnumForce]

But what is wrong with that? There is no need to run from Cecil to Defiance, or heck no need to run from Antwerp to Defiance. Using what is otherwise worthless trackage for revenue makes perfect sense.

For what it's worth, not many cars at all between Cecil and Defiance anymore. A string of ATW autoracks is it.

[ns8401]

Boy, oh, boy, you history buffs getting all teary-eyed & nostalgic about who owned what first 100 years ago is just wrenching my heart.

This is 2011, it is business. Pay the rent, or get evicted, easy as that. Wendelin is a lawyer, IIRC, he's also a worthless snake who is juicing a railroad line to it's knees so he can make money on storage cars. Well, if that is how he wants to make his limited revenue, fine. But when he refuses to pay HIS part of the "rent", this is what happens. I don't care if it's 10, 20 or 50% of the costs. If he isn't willing to pay ANYTHING (like he's obviously unwilling to put any new ties in his own rickety lines), then he should have plenty of money around to cover this expense.

I have no sympathy for him or his driven into the ground operation. The way he runs that line is more despicable then what CSXT did. Had they actually cut commerce from him, and the ability to interchange Defiance / Napoleon traffic with the NS, I would understand.

Now back to the bleeding hearts...

Not quite as easy as that there Foamer... traditionally the last road there pays the costs because they necesitated having the diamond installed, this isn't just nostalgia and being a history buff, it's the way it works and has for quite some time... It completely matters who was where first, as that's how responsibility is ultimately determined.

[Y@]

For what it's worth, not many cars at all between Cecil and Defiance anymore. A string of ATW autoracks is it.

As of last Saturday there was still a ton of other storage cars back there. The ATW racks are first, followed by a bunch of misc. hoppers, tanks, and gons.

[JoJames]

A few other notes. For some reason the MAW can show on paper interchanging cars with the NS at Woodburn with the diamonds in place at Defiance. Even though the cars have been interchanged with CSX. Also in the days of NW ownership the line was maintained for class two standards (25 mph). Which would be more than adequate at that time and would be ideal for the current time.

[Y@]

Also in the days of NW ownership the line was maintained for class two standards (25 mph). Which would be more than adequate at that time and would be ideal for the current time.

Hell, 15 mph would be ideal for what they do now!

[MagnumForce]

For what it's worth, not many cars at all between Cecil and Defiance anymore. A string of ATW autoracks is it.

As of last Saturday there was still a ton of other storage cars back there. The ATW racks are first, followed by a bunch of misc. hoppers, tanks, and gons.

I drove from Paulding back to Defiance Sunday, only thing there is a load of ATW racks and about 25 hoppers and tanks.

[CG Tower]

Actually, most counties do not have singular port authorities and are a part of a larger regional collaborative. The three counties the MAW server are a part of the Regional Port Authority of Northwest Ohio.

There web site is: http://www.regionalportauthorityofnwo.org/

CG Tower

Believe it or not the MAW replaced a ton of ties and added tons of ballast this year. I believe it has just been let go for so long that without a major major investment it has become untenable.

Little to no maintainence has been performed since N&W got the line in 64 and the line was relegated to secondary and even tertiary status. N&W did nothing, Indiana Hi-Rail did nothing, and the MAW has done nothing.

Paulding, Defiance, and Henry counties are chomping at the bit to buy the line but Wendelin will have none of it. It's his to do as he pleases but I feel the man is jeopardizing interstate commerce, there must be something that can be done.

I don't know the man but this Wendelin guy sounds like a debt collection lawyer, sort of in the mold of Barry Fromm here in Columbus. Do Paulding, Defiance, and Henry County have any Port or Commerce Authority Organizations?

[MagnumForce]

I know that CG, My Wife's Uncle is on the Board, Dave Von Deylen from Alex Products. Incidentally he is also my Boss

[CG Tower]

That wasn't for you, that was for the poster above you...redside. He asked, I told...

Looks like I'll stop posting on here again after my hiatus, simply offering up some information.

CG

I know that CG, My Wife's Uncle is on the Board. Dave Von Deylen at Alex Products.

[MagnumForce]

Whoops, I just saw my post quoted and assumed you were directing it at me. Please Disregard!

For what it's worth the Port Authority has worked VERY hard to try to purchase the MAW. Wendelin will have none of it, no matter the cost.

I think the guy is just looking for a write off.

[CG Tower]

Ah, gotcha...ok...no worries.

CG

Whoops, I just saw my post quoted and assumed you were directing it at me. Please Disregard!

For what it's worth the Port Authority has worked VERY hard to try to purchase the MAW. Wendelin will have none of it, no matter the cost.

I think the guy is just looking for a write off.

[Y@]

Looks like I'll stop posting on here again after my hiatus, simply offering up some information.

NO, you will stay!

[redside20]

That wasn't for you, that was for the poster above you...redside. He asked, I told...

Looks like I'll stop posting on here again after my hiatus, simply offering up some information.

CG

I know that CG, My Wife's Uncle is on the Board. Dave Von Deylen at Alex Products.

Eric..thanks for taking the time to answer my question, i really appreciate it. It sounds as if Mr Wendelin won't be budging on this anytime soon. While were on the subject of Port Authority, i've always been interested in the subjects of Commerce, Transportation, and Geography and looking to those for a possible career. That is why i am in school for that matter..BTW don't stop posting, i enjoy reading your viewpoints.

[foamer fotaug]

Paulding, Defiance, and Henry counties are chomping at the bit to buy the line but Wendelin will have none of it. It's his to do as he pleases but I feel the man is jeopardizing interstate commerce, there must be something that can be done.

I feel the same way, and if there is truth to him telling Gerald Grain (in Liberty Center) that it would cost $2-million for them to purchase the line, then they should be the first to drag his doopa in front of the STB and cry bloody murder.

Since Wendelin owns the line, the concern should be expressed that Gerald wishes to ship 65-car unit grain trains, and Wendelin would/should have to ensure the line is suitable for such traffic. If he's not willing to sell, at which point maintenance would be in the hands of the elevator, take him to court & let the STB settle on a fair value for the line. The problem is, like the west end, he just wants the line to jam more storage cars, and while it makes some money for him, is not really the purpose of a railroad mainline. The line was intended for interstate commerce, which is being impeded by whatever BS story Wendelin is feeding the elevator.

The line is a shambles, but could really be a money maker with backing from the various Ohio industrial groups that have shown interest in this route. Their pipe dream of a hi-speed route would negate anything like that.

Two-to-one, if Wendelin's waiting for anything, it's some kind of lottery ticket that the state will pay him more money than that junk rail is worth in hopes of running hi-speed trains 40 years from now.

But what is wrong with that? There is no need to run from Cecil to Defiance, or heck no need to run from Antwerp to Defiance. Using what is otherwise worthless trackage for revenue makes perfect sense.

What's wrong with that? Hmmmm...

I'm going to take a wild guess & say that you've never cherry-picked railcars with limited head room and/or tried to sort them out between only 2 tracks.

Amirite?

Think about it, if storage cars are EAST of the Cincy Northern spur, there is NO WAY TO SWITCH THEM OUT without taking them to Antwerp, or dragging a cut 3-miles down the CN. For the latter, you must switch them out & shove back out with the "picked" cars, and take them to Woodburn. Sounds a bit labor intensive for a group of cars that area sitting around.

Not quite as easy as that there Foamer... traditionally the last road there pays the costs because they necesitated having the diamond installed, this isn't just nostalgia and being a history buff, it's the way it works and has for quite some time... It completely matters who was where first, as that's how responsibility is ultimately determined.

Times change, too.

If you can show me on paper, that over the transition from WAB > NW > NS > IHRC > WAER, and now MAW that this line is still the "dominant" side, I'll give you 10 rupees from the Legend of Zelda.

I think you'll find that yes, CSXT is probably liable for the majority of cost to replace the diamond, b/c they're using it 95% of the time (or better). However, don't EVER believe that MAW isn't responsible for something, especially since they want the thing in place for traffic that probably doesn't even replacing the diamond to begin with.

[JoJames]

The days of loading grain trains in Liberty Center are over. All grain trains will be loaded at Hamler because of the expansion to load 90 car trains.

[CSX_CO]

What's wrong with that? Hmmmm...

I'm going to take a wild guess & say that you've never cherry-picked railcars with limited head room and/or tried to sort them out between only 2 tracks.

Amirite?

Think about it, if storage cars are EAST of the Cincy Northern spur, there is NO WAY TO SWITCH THEM OUT without taking them to Antwerp, or dragging a cut 3-miles down the CN. For the latter, you must switch them out & shove back out with the "picked" cars, and take them to Woodburn. Sounds a bit labor intensive for a group of cars that area sitting around.

Why do you care? You're not the one having to dig them out, so whats the big deal? Plenty of railroads make extra $$$ storing cars. They can make quite a bit of money to be honest. They can get a daily rate, and they get a switching charge when the customer wants their car back. MAW isn't looking to run from Fort Wayne to Defiance, so why not use that 20 some odd miles of track for something?

As far as agreements at diamonds and crossings, unless someone agrees to changes, the original agreement remains in place. Percent of responsibility may change with mergers and abandonments, but the original agreement is in place until both sides agree to changes.

Practice Safe CSX

[ns8401]

Not quite as easy as that there Foamer... traditionally the last road there pays the costs because they necesitated having the diamond installed, this isn't just nostalgia and being a history buff, it's the way it works and has for quite some time... It completely matters who was where first, as that's how responsibility is ultimately determined.

Times change, too.

If you can show me on paper, that over the transition from WAB > NW > NS > IHRC > WAER, and now MAW that this line is still the "dominant" side, I'll give you 10 rupees from the Legend of Zelda.

I think you'll find that yes, CSXT is probably liable for the majority of cost to replace the diamond, b/c they're using it 95% of the time (or better). However, don't EVER believe that MAW isn't responsible for something, especially since they want the thing in place for traffic that probably doesn't even replacing the diamond to begin with.[/quote]

Please don't tell me what to think first off, second please re-read what I said and recognize that I was trying to explain these agreements in general, because you dismissed this very real factor out of hand without regard for it as any more than "history, and nostalgia". That's not the way it works, the agreements matter till amended, I have not read this one so I don't know the specifics, but you were incorrect to dismiss it entirely. Lastly can you please stop acting like a know it all? You have condescended toward several of us already since you got here by saying we are narrow minded, naive etc. It's a discussion not a classroom and you aren't the teacher....