NS Peavine talk

[heypal6878]

Midland it appears that you have your ear to the ground and know what is going on with the rail companies. NS said no way to a merger with CP this morning yet CP is not going to let it go and are seeking other avenues to move on this company. Buffett is not moving yet but knowing him he will put a bid in as well. The question is will NS even want to look at his bid? I still think this is all smoke and NS will not move on any merger talks. NS is going to do very well if they don't merge with anyone as they have all the cards in their hands. CP may go back to CSX again who knows as this is getting very complicated.

The Peavine information you mentioned is interesting. I didn't know Frontier owns the CCET. Kind of makes sense as I can't see the CCET buying power just for the Peavine. I take it one of the engines is a lease deal. On a day like today, rain the tracks are slick and one engine cannot get enough traction to pull a long weighted down car load up the hill from Batavia.

Only the Ag is giving the CCET enough business to make money, the paper company at the Ford plant only gives the CCET a few freight cars a week if that no enough to support profit for them. Storage of cars is a good money supply for the CCET during the winter months.

I understand about the rates hikes yet I think NS is giving the CCET a deal on flat rates at the present time. NS is getting a good hunk of money from the Ag and I take it when NS brings cars and tankers out for storage to Clare they get a good hit on this as well so more money in the bucket. If the Evans plan goes forward this will be a plus for the CCET as well. Thanks for the info!

[heypal6878]

Question for Midland Sub. How much does the CCET make storing cars and tankers? They are loaded with a few hundred cars on their Peavine sidings. More of them on the way. I would think they make money storing them, then moving them up and back on the Peavine and then NS must be getting a cut as well.

[OSRR]

Question for Midland Sub. How much does the CCET make storing cars and tankers? They are loaded with a few hundred cars on their Peavine sidings. More of them on the way. I would think they make money storing them, then moving them up and back on the Peavine and then NS must be getting a cut as well.

I would think NS would get a cut for simply moving the cars over the system to the CCET interchange.

[heypal6878]

Yes NS must get a cut on empty cars that are pushed up the Peavine by the CCET for storage. Today (Monday) NS brought out another thirty or more cars and sidetracked them down east of Clare.

[midland sub]

Indeed storage cars are billed differently than current two online customers. NS does all the billing on those two and gives CCET a flat fee per car.

The storage cars are only billed by NS for their portion of the move from where they came online on NS to the interchange at Clare. Frontier handles all the details once they get to the interchange at Clare. Frontier and the car owners agree upon fees charged for everything once CCET accepts them from interchange. There's some sort of charge to move them from the interchange to where CCET places them in storage. Each car is charged a set fee everyday it's on the CCET. The rate is determined by Frontier. A lot can go into this rate like how much of a national demand and space there is along with how long: short or long term. There's also a charge for CCET to take a car out of storage along with another fee on top of that if they are required to cherry pick a certain car out of a cut. Now if CCET moves cars from say Alton out to end of the line around Seaman to make room for more cars, they don't bill the car owners for moving them. Whatever Frontier makes for storage stays with them and it goes to the bottom line of CCET.

[heypal6878]

Midland, so this can be a good business for say Frontier or for the CCET who in fact will have Ag traffic slowing down now until next summer. I looked yesterday all the way up to Afton and they have several hundred cars and tankers sitting on sidetracking along the Peavine. They were also moving them yesterday in the rain to other sidetracking as NS was bringing more cars to Clare. I do know that Frontier along with the CCET and other railroad like to storage cars for extra income. So this is a good play for everyone involved.

[midland sub]

Storage business is a decent income. They just have to be careful as it's very cyclical so they can't come to rely on it for a steady stream of income. Just in the past year they went from several hundred down to around a hundred and now it's building back up. They might as well tap into the revenue stream while it's there.

[northstar16]

I have been looking at this forum and have gathered some useful information. I see that the CCET is storing cars on the line and have noticed them sitting the last few months. This is for smaller railroads good income especially if the line is not very busy with though traffic. The Peavine is shut down well out east so for them storage is a nice source of outside income. If I remember right the Peavine has several sidings to park tankers and cars.

I hope that the Plum Road gravel pit gives the shortline some business. I thought that the rails up there that run next to the gravel pit have been blacktopped over a few years back. Don't think that the Peavine rails run past that gravel pit but I may be wrong.

Thanks for the info

[chapmaja]

I have been looking at this forum and have gathered some useful information. I see that the CCET is storing cars on the line and have noticed them sitting the last few months. This is for smaller railroads good income especially if the line is not very busy with though traffic. The Peavine is shut down well out east so for them storage is a nice source of outside income. If I remember right the Peavine has several sidings to park tankers and cars.

I hope that the Plum Road gravel pit gives the shortline some business. I thought that the rails up there that run next to the gravel pit have been blacktopped over a few years back. Don't think that the Peavine rails run past that gravel pit but I may be wrong.

Thanks for the info

The Ann Arbor Railroad has done something similar with the Pittsfield Branch now that the lone customer on the branch stopped using rail (the plant shipped autoparts for a project that moved from Mexico to Wayne, Mi. The drive is basically a left out of the plant and stay on Michigan Ave until you reach the plant and turn right).

The AA now has a line of oil tankers on it. It extends almost the entire length of the branch, which is roughly 6 miles in length. That has to be some decent income for the AA. Unless something changes drastically I don't see the oil tankers getting pulled out of storage any time soon.

[heypal6878]

I would think with oil shipments down there should be more and more oil tankers needing a place to sit. Small rail companies that don't have much business this time of the year most likely use the storage plan to gain some income. When they have over a 1000 cars or more idle on their side rails this spells income, plus moving them around ever so often keeps the rails in better shape. I see today east of Clare there are several more cars that NS has brought out so looks like the CCET has more going east for storage in the next few days.

I forgot about Ann Arbor. A year or two I saw Ann Arbor power being pulled by a I&O power on the Oasis Line. Thought that was a little strange. I wonder if the I&O has something to do with the Ann Arbor system. Guess this is a question for Midland Sub!

[AARR]

AA is owned by Watco and IORY by G&W. They interchange at Dianne (south of Dundee) although not much is exchanged there. Some casting sand (now closed), scrap metal and either a little fertilizer or grain (can't recall which).

I forgot about Ann Arbor. A year or two I saw Ann Arbor power being pulled by a I&O power on the Oasis Line. Thought that was a little strange. I wonder if the I&O has something to do with the Ann Arbor system. Guess this is a question for Midland Sub!

[midland sub]

I think you saw one of the CFE locos or maybe one of the orange painted G&W locos. The I&O has't had anything from the AA recently (if ever), especially if it was in the Cincy area there would have been a foam fest. Didn't WATCO get rid of one or two of the AA GP38s a couple of years ago? You might have seen it heading south on CSX. There's all sorts of interesting stuff that moves thru Cincinnati on CSX.

Winchester is going to ship some more grain in January. Plan was to sit on what they had until spring, but some of CSX grain marketing genius has opened up some markets for grain coming via NS. Might not be more than a couple hundred loads at most or might end up being steady. Depends on who's buying it.

Plum Run to Vera is on the expedited list of 500 miles of trackage NS wants to dispose of first quarter. Sections on the list will be offered for sale to whoever is interested. No interest will result in abandonment and removal as soon as approval is given. Not good for Plum Run to Vera as the Discontinuance of Service last year makes the abandonment approval very quick and easy.

[AARR]

midland, you are correct. AA sold two of its three GP38's a few years ago. I think 7771 and 7791 were the units sold. They kept 7802, painted it in heritage colors and renumbered it.

I think you saw one of the CFE locos or maybe one of the orange painted G&W locos. The I&O has't had anything from the AA recently (if ever), especially if it was in the Cincy area there would have been a foam fest. Didn't WATCO get rid of one or two of the AA GP38s a couple of years ago? You might have seen it heading south on CSX. There's all sorts of interesting stuff that moves thru Cincinnati on CSX.

[brc0227]

I think you saw one of the CFE locos or maybe one of the orange painted G&W locos. The I&O has't had anything from the AA recently (if ever), especially if it was in the Cincy area there would have been a foam fest. Didn't WATCO get rid of one or two of the AA GP38s a couple of years ago? You might have seen it heading south on CSX. There's all sorts of interesting stuff that moves thru Cincinnati on CSX.

Winchester is going to ship some more grain in January. Plan was to sit on what they had until spring, but some of CSX grain marketing genius has opened up some markets for grain coming via NS. Might not be more than a couple hundred loads at most or might end up being steady. Depends on who's buying it.

Plum Run to Vera is on the expedited list of 500 miles of trackage NS wants to dispose of first quarter. Sections on the list will be offered for sale to whoever is interested. No interest will result in abandonment and removal as soon as approval is given. Not good for Plum Run to Vera as the Discontinuance of Service last year makes the abandonment approval very quick and easy.

Any idea on what's left of the 500 miles of after the peavine? Im assuming Saluda is just one of them.

[midland sub]

Yep Saluda is supposed to be grouped with the Peavine. The better question is when they do something with the WV Sec. Last week was supposed to see the last 380/381 run.

[OSRR]

Yep Saluda is supposed to be grouped with the Peavine. The better question is when they do something with the WV Sec. Last week was supposed to see the last 380/381 run.

Called at 10:30 out of Hobson this morning. Unusually large though, 2 units with 109 cars.

[heypal6878]

From what I hear from my buddy who works in Atlanta at NS main offices the Peavine is on the chopping block. There is still opposition in the powers to be to keep it open out east but the possibilities of any manufacturing companies moving out that way in the future is not very bright. For NS consolidation is the key for their business moving forward. If they have rails that aren't generating income they need to go.

[brc0227]

Yep Saluda is supposed to be grouped with the Peavine. The better question is when they do something with the WV Sec. Last week was supposed to see the last 380/381 run.

I've heard the rumors on the secondary. And wouldn't shock me if they come true. Although I think one of the reasons it's stayed open is because of all the oil and natural gas coming out of the ground in the eastern part of the state. You know of any other lines on the chopping block?

[bbe125]

The 381-26 that was called out of Hobson Sunday morning was a big train because it was the only 381 NS ran last week. They also ran a coal train north on Tuesday and a 380 south on Monday last week.

380-28 NS 8949 went south out of Hobson last night with around 60 cars and 381-29 NS 2801 arrived at Hobson northbound with 31 cars about 2PM today.

NS 3321 & 3326 are tied down on the diesel track at Hobson. There are about 15 covered gondolas in the yard supposedly for an environmental cleanup project in the Charleston area.

[redside20]

The West Virginia Secondary has always been the dark horse...pardon the pun. If this line makes it past all these cuts I will be stunned. It could have nine lives like the Nickel Plate, could there something in the region that keeps this line going?