CCET operations

[heypal6878]

Got it think there might be some cars sitting on the side tracks east past Clare today.

[jallenp7]

How much do they get per car per day, I am sure it varies, but just wondering what an average is?

Thanks
Jim

[midland sub]

I was told there's a cut of tank cars now just west of the RT 32 overpass at Bativia.

Good question I presume a $1 a day per car maybe a bit more. Back 2009 it was up to $4 a day per car at the height of the downturn.

How much do they get per car per day, I am sure it varies, but just wondering what an average is?

Thanks
Jim

[AARR]

I was told there's a cut of tank cars now just west of the RT 32 overpass at Bativia.

Good question I presume a $1 a day per car maybe a bit more. Back 2009 it was up to $4 a day per car at the height of the downturn.

How much do they get per car per day, I am sure it varies, but just wondering what an average is?

Thanks
Jim

E&LS has (had?) literally miles and miles of cars stored on their original line between Escanaba and Channing.

[midland sub]

NS had several miles of stored TOFC flats stored on the Peavine. I believe they pulled the last of them on their last run over the line before the CCET took over.

I was told there wasn't any grain cars at Winchester this afternoon. Nothing going on at Huhmataki in Batavia. But my source did catch the NS local coming back from Clare sitting at the bagged signals at Redbank waiting for the I&O to pass them coming from Undercliff.

[Muleskinner]

I have seen the tankers at the siding where Rt.32 crosses over in Batavia.

[heypal6878]

Question when a rail company like the CCET stores these cars on the line how long do they keep them. I always hear that large rail companies needs cars all of the time and buy them from other rail companies. I guess these are the ones they don't need at the present time. I take it the rail cars are empty and sit for longer periods of time? I know down at Clare NS had some tankers down there for months on end back in the day.

[midland sub]

All depends on what the owner of the cars wants to do with them. In the situation with the 400 tank cars going into storage on the CCET, they were used in ethanol service and at the moment aren't needed. They might sit for six months and return to service, they might sit there for a couple of years or more. Lot's of factors go into why cars go into storage, mostly depends on how that part of the economy they serve is doing, to sometimes purely financial.

Now there's another type of storage and it's what you brought up with those cars at Clare. It's usually plastic pellet cov hoppers but tank cars also end up serving as storage for materials for customers. Customers either don't need that material at the time or don't want to spend the money to build storage for the material and it's cheaper to lease the car and whatever storage fees that might occur until they need it. There's an article several years ago in Trains about the amount of plastic pellet cars that sit in storage loaded waiting for customers. The I&O had an unfortunate issue 10 years ago over at Undercliff with a tank car that leaked styrene after it sat in storage waiting for the customer to need it. The styrene had been in the tank car for a couple years or longer and finally started to settle and react from sitting in storage that it reacted and leaked out of the car.

[AARR]

The I&O had an unfortunate issue 10 years ago over at Undercliff with a tank car that leaked styrene after it sat in storage waiting for the customer to need it. The styrene had been in the tank car for a couple years or longer and finally started to settle and react from sitting in storage that it reacted and leaked out of the car.

No kidding, the material was in the tank car for a couple years? I would have thought no car ever sits longer than a month with a load in it.

[midland sub]

I thought it was a couple of years, but it was 9 months:

http://www.isitech.com/index.php?id=128&L=1

The I&O had an unfortunate issue 10 years ago over at Undercliff with a tank car that leaked styrene after it sat in storage waiting for the customer to need it. The styrene had been in the tank car for a couple years or longer and finally started to settle and react from sitting in storage that it reacted and leaked out of the car.

No kidding, the material was in the tank car for a couple years? I would have thought no car ever sits longer than a month with a load in it.

[AARR]

I'm still surprised at the length of time. In a Trains Magazine article a few years back they said tank cars in SIT service average 6 revenue trips annually and covered hoppers 3-4. From the sounds of it this tank car did not get lost and the customer knew where it was and just didn't need it.

I thought it was a couple of years, but it was 9 months:
http://www.isitech.com/index.php?id=128&L=1

The I&O had an unfortunate issue 10 years ago over at Undercliff with a tank car that leaked styrene after it sat in storage waiting for the customer to need it. The styrene had been in the tank car for a couple years or longer and finally started to settle and react from sitting in storage that it reacted and leaked out of the car.

No kidding, the material was in the tank car for a couple years? I would have thought no car ever sits longer than a month with a load in it.

[CSX_CO]

The I&O had an unfortunate issue 10 years ago over at Undercliff with a tank car that leaked styrene after it sat in storage waiting for the customer to need it. The styrene had been in the tank car for a couple years or longer and finally started to settle and react from sitting in storage that it reacted and leaked out of the car.

No kidding, the material was in the tank car for a couple years? I would have thought no car ever sits longer than a month with a load in it.

You should see the dwell times on some of the overload cars we get. I think we had a couple trash cars here over 10 months.

[midland sub]

AARR you can't take the word of Trains to be the gospel of each tank car in service. Candle-lite on the I&O gets loads of wax that take months sometimes from the time they are loaded, shipped and then sit and wait until they are spotted to be unloaded. They used to have up to 60 loads of wax stashed on a siding on the Greenfield Sub for months waiting. If the material like wax for example does not break down while inside the car, why wouldn't the car serve the same purpose as most plastic pellet hoppers that spend most of their career as a storage for material than in transist? I would say it's more a factor on the material than anything. Remember tank cars are privately owned and not subject to demurage fees.

[AARR]

midland and CSX - thanks for the info. I believe you that some train cars sit for many months before getting used. And I understand Trains Magazine is not always accurate. But before you told me that some cars sit for many months loaded I would never have guessed more than a month (and I would have been very wrong). So thanks again.

[heypal6878]

Thanks for the info Midland Sub I did know about the Undercliff a few years ago. This also happened at Clare many years ago on the siding by Clare Creek. I can see tanker cars getting stored as oil shipments are down. Not sure how low that will last. It is good to see the CCET picking up some unrelated transportation revenue. So they get around a buck a car to store them and I guess a buck a car for a day? Surely they get extra money the longer the cars sit on the sides? Do they move them every so often?

[midland sub]

It's probably between a $1 to $2 a day they charge per car they are in storage. CCET also will get a per car fee for moving them from Clare to wherever they ended up stored at. No they typically will not move the cars once they are spotted on the track they will be stored on. So for example the Batavia siding that now has cars, they will continue to add cars to it until its full. Once it's full they will sit there until the owner decides to return them to service. When the owner of the cars decide they want them returned to service they will pay for the cars to be inspected and any repairs made and then will pay CCET to pull the car(s) out of storage and taken to Clare. Sometimes the owner of the cars will come out and request just certain cars come out of storage. If this happens the CCET then sorts and switches out the particular cars the owner wants. Since it's all tank cars I doubt this happens because it's rather expensive for the owners to pay CCET to come out and start cherry picking individual cars.

[midland sub]

It's not that Trains isn't always accurate, it's more the truth about how railroads really operate is sort of like how sausage is made. Being a hobby magazine they don't need to get into the tedious details. It's a balance of sharing enough to keep the article interesting, but too much bogs it down and usually lets the ugly truth of how railroads work. The other CCET thread that got locked is a good example of this. Once you get past what's going on with the CCET and start splitting hairs about other aspects it turns into two differences of opinions and views.

midland and CSX - thanks for the info. I believe you that some train cars sit for many months before getting used. And I understand Trains Magazine is not always accurate. But before you told me that some cars sit for many months loaded I would never have guessed more than a month (and I would have been very wrong). So thanks again.

[heypal6878]

Interesting so for the CCET this could be a major revenue source storing cars. I know the Peavine has many siding areas so they could in fact load up all their siding with storage. The decrease in oil and gas shipments even coal the CCET could really score on storing cars.

[heypal6878]

Looks like the CCET has taken on or most of the tanker cars for storage that they contracted. Afton sides are full, and many more spread all over the Peavine. Looks like a few hundred or more. I know the CCET was going to get around 400. My buddy said more on the way this coming week. It has been confirmed that the CCET will not store any at Clare as NS owns that yard as previously stated by Midland Sub. Don't think the CCET will put any east of Clare by the Steam Plant as that is where the freights are that arrived to go to the Ag and the cup plant in Batavia. I bet the tankers sit for sometime as shipments are down on oil and gas.

[redcrumbox]

I bet the tankers sit for sometime as shipments are down on oil and gas.

As Midland has mentioned, these are ethanol tank cars for storage. Ethanol is a fuel additive. Recently there has ben no incentive to increase ethanol blending beyond the regulatory minimum so many ethanol tankers are going to collect cobwebs.