RailRoadFan.com

New flange bearing diamonds will be installed this year at Defiance. MAW needs to pay for their half of number one track on CSX and of course they do not want too. MAW saying the current diamonds are just fine. Number one track is currently slow ordered and both diamonds need welded at least once a week. Things may get interesting once again.

I don't understand why the MAW has to pay for the cost of the diamonds. Wasn't the Wabash there before the B&O?

I too do not understand why MAW has to contribute is they do not want the upgrade. I suppose if it were general maintenance I could see MAW having some financial responsibility but my read is this not routine maintenance

I guess if all else fails and the diamond is torn out again, they can drag the storage cars that are west of Defiance out (when needed) to the NS interchange in Woodburn. Right?

The MAW will cry poor and get the ORDC to cover their part of the diamond replacement. In the STB filing over the last diamond fiasco it spells out what the MAW is responsible for maintenance wise. I'm fairly certain it's track one like JoJames said in his post. With the way CSX treats their shortline connections sometimes, it is kind of funny to see one stick it right back at them.

While the predecessor of the MAW was the first route there, those agreements can be renegotiated. It could have been changed when the B&O single tracked back in the late '50's'for example. In any event, it is funny that the MAW tries to "follow the rules" only when it's to their benefit - they tried to get out of their share of replacing the interlocking @ Liberty Center 8-10 yrs ago by claiming that since they weren't the signing party of the original agreement (DT&I and Wabash) they weren't bound to it. Needless to say they were "out lawyered" on that one!

what a joke....the MAW needs to just shut down already, that railroad's not worth the track it derails on.

Chris

Chris7092 wrote:what a joke....the MAW needs to just shut down already, that railroad's not worth the track it derails on.

With the right ownership and operating techniques, the MAW would be much better off. All the line needs is a change of operators, and some money for track work. Getting that line up to 20 or 25 mph would be sufficient. Even 15 mph is suitable! I really wish someone would make it happen, but I won't hold my breath. Time will tell, eh?

The MAW has a very large traffic base. there is no reason that without the awful ownership they have that they could not run a tight ship.

Y@ wrote: With the right ownership and operating techniques, the MAW would be much better off. All the line needs is a change of operators, and some money for track work. Getting that line up to 20 or 25 mph would be sufficient. Even 15 mph is suitable! I really wish someone would make it happen, but I won't hold my breath. Time will tell, eh?

NO reason to go above FRA class 1 (10mph Freight, 15mph passenger.) All they need is to replace some of the ties, get some ballast, and they'll be just fine.

AARR wrote:I too do not understand why MAW has to contribute is they do not want the upgrade. I suppose if it were general maintenance I could see MAW having some financial responsibility but my read is this not routine maintenance

Wrong. "Routine mainteance" would imply that the infrastructure does not drop below timetable speed. If constant maintenance is necessary to the diamonds, the only answer would be replacement. Diamonds are VERY labor intensive from the constant banging. In this case, it appears whatever damage incurred to the diamonds can't be repaired without replacement. Now you understand why CSXT took them out to begin with.

As for who needs to pay for it, since Wendelin wanted them BACK in (after CSXT pulled them out years ago), he needs to ante up. If nothing else, at least the little bit based on how often he uses them. It's sadly quite obvious that the ONLY thing he's crossing the diamonds for is to dredge up his precious storage cars from the west end, which is sickening.

In this situation, I say Wendelin / MAW wanted them back in so badly, it's called the cost of doing business. Unfortunately, CSXT can't or doesn't wish to allow their plant to deteriorate to the point that his has (all of 5mph in MANY places?) the past 13 years.

foamer fotaug wrote:[

Wrong. "Routine mainteance" would imply that the infrastructure does not drop below timetable speed. If constant maintenance is necessary to the diamonds, the only answer would be replacement. Diamonds are VERY labor intensive from the constant banging. In this case, it appears whatever damage incurred to the diamonds can't be repaired without replacement. Now you understand why CSXT took them out to begin with.

As for who needs to pay for it, since Wendelin wanted them BACK in (after CSXT pulled them out years ago), he needs to ante up.

He wanted them back in because CSX had no legal right to remove BOTH diamonds in the first place. From what I'm gathering, the MAW is responsible for maintaining one of the two diamonds there, or at least part of the plant. Where CSX fouled up was when they removed BOTH diamonds because the MAW wasn't paying their share of the upkeep, thereby severing the MAW in two. The B&O was the 'junior' road at FC, therefore the B&O has to pay the majority of the costs to maintain the crossing. A judge ordered CSX to reinstall the diamonds. Now its time for the diamonds to be replaced, and CSX wants to go to an OWL type crossing? Once again the MAW isn't paying their % they are supposed to be.

Practice Safe CSX

How much can an OWLS diamond cost? Sheesh. Install one and forget about it for 30 years.

CSX_CO wrote: He wanted them back in because CSX had no legal right to remove BOTH diamonds in the first place.

Woulda' been quite the amusing picture had CSX only removed the one...

Owl diamonds $250,000.00 a piece. So $500,000.00 total at Defiance and MAW has to pay for half of the diamond on number one track. ($125,000.00). MAW could have avoided this if they would have agreed to using turnout on number two track to connect to their line. So it is time to pay up.

WOW!!!!!
I had no Idea that they cost anywhere near that much!!!! I guess they are a specialty product that needs to be very high quality. Not to be nosy, but do you know how much a conventional manganese steel diamond costs?
On another note, the MAW is being totally ridiculous by not just using the switch off of the #2 track. I really do wonder who is in charge of that insane operation.

RBM diamonds are about $150,000.00 a piece.

willardgarrett wrote:On another note, the MAW is being totally ridiculous by not just using the switch off of the #2 track. I really do wonder who is in charge of that insane operation.

I 2nd that willard. It is not like MAW is bereft of traffic either. Back when they were documenting the trains from Napoleon it was common for it to have 15+ cars each day, sometimes over 20. That is enough traffic for 20-30 miles of track to keep it in better shape.

I AM CALLING YOU OUT MAW. SELL TO SD70ACE AND LET A REAL RAILROADER HAVE AT THAT OPERATION.

CSX_CO wrote: He wanted them back in because CSX had no legal right to remove BOTH diamonds in the first place. From what I'm gathering, the MAW is responsible for maintaining one of the two diamonds there, or at least part of the plant. Where CSX fouled up was when they removed BOTH diamonds because the MAW wasn't paying their share of the upkeep, thereby severing the MAW in two. The B&O was the 'junior' road at FC, therefore the B&O has to pay the majority of the costs to maintain the crossing. A judge ordered CSX to reinstall the diamonds. Now its time for the diamonds to be replaced, and CSX wants to go to an OWL type crossing? Once again the MAW isn't paying their % they are supposed to be.

Boy, oh, boy, you history buffs getting all teary-eyed & nostalgic about who owned what first 100 years ago is just wrenching my heart.

This is 2011, it is business. Pay the rent, or get evicted, easy as that. Wendelin is a lawyer, IIRC, he's also a worthless snake who is juicing a railroad line to it's knees so he can make money on storage cars. Well, if that is how he wants to make his limited revenue, fine. But when he refuses to pay HIS part of the "rent", this is what happens. I don't care if it's 10, 20 or 50% of the costs. If he isn't willing to pay ANYTHING (like he's obviously unwilling to put any new ties in his own rickety lines), then he should have plenty of money around to cover this expense.

I have no sympathy for him or his driven into the ground operation. The way he runs that line is more despicable then what CSXT did. Had they actually cut commerce from him, and the ability to interchange Defiance / Napoleon traffic with the NS, I would understand.

Now back to the bleeding hearts...

MDH wrote:Woulda' been quite the amusing picture had CSX only removed the one...

Indeed, let's play this one out...

RM: "RM Dispatcher to the Maaaaw, over"
MAW: "MAW answering"
RM: "I can't seem to get a signal for you guys this morning, what's your lead engine?"
MAW: "C-N-U-R...five"
RM: "A'ight, C-N-U-R number 5 you have permission past the absolute at FC from the MAW single track to the MAW single track in the east direction, over"
MAW: "OK, C-N-U-R number 5 has permission past the absolute at FC from the MAW single track to the MAW single track in the east direction, thanks"

And thus the MAW is face-planted in the dirt at FC after violating the rules of restricted speed. Yay.

foamer fotaug wrote:Wendelin is a lawyer, IIRC, he's also a worthless snake who is juicing a railroad line to it's knees so he can make money on storage cars.

THANK YOU!