TLE&W To Become a Common Carrier?

[jimnorthwood]

If I am interpreting this STB filing correctly, albeit not always an easy thing to do, I read it to mean that Midwest Rail, d/b/a Toledo, Lake Erie and Western RR has petitioned the STB for permission to operate the line of track owned by the TLE&W Museum, as a common carrier. The filing says they will solicit for freight traffic such as stone, agricultural products, and manufactured goods. The 10 mile line between Waterville and Grand Rapids connects with NS at Waterville, and has been home to the "Blue Bird" passenger train for many years.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... 231011.pdf

[MSchwiebert]

That's the way I was reading it too, it'd be interesting to see how this all works out. I would think that potential customer(s) may have expressed interest in using rail service and as currently constituted the museum could not do so, so the creation of Midwest as a common carrier would allow freight service to occur. Or else why bother with attempting to change the status quo?

[slwapprslw]

This is kind of a surprise to me, but not totally. Past member(s) talked about doing this a long time ago, but they had no means of accomplishing this goal.

Currently, the TLE&W is not in great financial shape right now. By going this route, the museum portion could seek grants, loans, etc. not open to them under the current charter. Note: this money would be only open to maintaining the right-of-way, not maintaining the museum's equipment (aka historical loco, passenger cars, etc.). Even with those limitations, the museum's volunteers could focus more on restoring the equipment.

The common carrier route has it's downsides. The museum will have to maintain it's charter to keep things going. Also, the new common carrier will have to maintain good business practices to stay in business.

The only barrier that I see at this time is the terms of the original sale to the museum. Hopefully, there wasn't any restriction about leasing the line to another party. This could stop things cold if there was a clause in the original sale of the rail line prohibiting leasing.

Hopefully, thing will work out for the TLE&W guys and they will be able to move forward.

[F40PH Fan]

I am a Volunteer with the TLE&W RR. I am not a board member but, I have been an active volunteer for almost 4 years. First off, this plan is curently just talk right now. No contracts or deals have been signed yet. From the sound of the plans the company (midwest rail) really is interested in getting our full excursion train (aka:Bluebird Passenger Train) back up & running better than ever. It sounds like they want to make our historical train #1 priorty to get running. I belive if something like a lease does happen the TLE&W will be able to go back to Grand Rapids, Ohio again & much more soon then thought. My guess is the building of an industrial park for multi-industries to be located along the right of way (maybe new spurs to be built?) There is a stone quary in Waterville, Ohio & a grain elevator located just across the Maumee River from Grand Rapids, Ohio. These companys are located right along our current right-of-way. I am still learning the details of this & I will try & keep you all posted on what devolpes. Like I said this is all just talk right now, nothing is for sure & no deals have been made. From the looks of this it sounds like this would be a very good thing and should greatly help the TLE&W RR's futrue out if it happens to go through. For now, this is nothing more than talk

[TrainWatcher]

Interesting developments. Needless to say it will be interesting to see what they get for motive power, if the project comes thru as the current Alco has been OOS since the robbery early this year. Might help save the museum, good luck to all involved.

[railohio]

I originally typed just "LOLZ" figuring there would be a ten character minimum on posts. I was then going to put an irrelevant statement like this in once my original was rejected. Looks like I was wrong.

[conrailfan]

Interesting developments. Needless to say it will be interesting to see what they get for motive power, if the project comes thru as the current Alco has been OOS since the robbery early this year. Might help save the museum, good luck to all involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg-UK_pmhL0
The Alco runs just not at 100% yet. Give us time!

[jimnorthwood]

Thanks, F40PH Fan for the insight into the potential doings at the TLE&W. And thanks conrailfan for posting that video of the Alco, great to see it alive again after a two year sleep. Best of luck to the Blue Bird, going forward.

[TrainWatcher]

Interesting developments. Needless to say it will be interesting to see what they get for motive power, if the project comes thru as the current Alco has been OOS since the robbery early this year. Might help save the museum, good luck to all involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg-UK_pmhL0
The Alco runs just not at 100% yet. Give us time!

Ah ok, I am not an Alco expert.

[MagnumForce]

Well first things first, they need to actually connect with the rest of the national rail system. It woudl be an easy fix but at the East end of Waterville the line is actually cut as rails are removed on both tracks between it and the end of the Maumee Branch.

Somebody needs to make Spencer Wendelin aware of this, he could buy another railroad and run it into the ground.

[F40PH Fan]

Well first things first, they need to actually connect with the rest of the national rail system. It woudl be an easy fix but at the East end of Waterville the line is actually cut as rails are removed on both tracks between it and the end of the Maumee Branch.

Somebody needs to make Spencer Wendelin aware of this, he could buy another railroad and run it into the ground.

No rails are cut. One rail is taken off the joint & moved to the side in waterville near a road called village Parkway. There is also a stop sign placed by milepost 14 at the end of our line. The plans call for a lease (right to use our line), not a takeover. Still, this is all just talk

[MDH]

I originally typed just "LOLZ" figuring there would be a ten character minimum on posts. I was then going to put an irrelevant statement like this in once my original was rejected. Looks like I was wrong.

Hate to say it but your "LOLZ" is probably the best assessment so far. Not that I wouldn't like to be proven wrong, but good luck. So from reading this, does the museum actually *own* the track, roadbed, land etc. and not NS?

[slwapprslw]

I originally typed just "LOLZ" figuring there would be a ten character minimum on posts. I was then going to put an irrelevant statement like this in once my original was rejected. Looks like I was wrong.

Hate to say it but your "LOLZ" is probably the best assessment so far. Not that I wouldn't like to be proven wrong, but good luck. So from reading this, does the museum actually *own* the track, roadbed, land etc. and not NS?

The museum owns all but the 1 mile of track in Waterville. In Waterville, the track is still owned by NS and leased to the TLE&W.

[MDH]

The museum owns all but the 1 mile of track in Waterville. In Waterville, the track is still owned by NS and leased to the TLE&W.

To your point then, I wonder if NS has "blessed" this little arrangement already or not... (if the people behind it weren't smare enough to get NS on board first then that $1,800 filing fee was probably a total waste of money).

[slwapprslw]

The museum owns all but the 1 mile of track in Waterville. In Waterville, the track is still owned by NS and leased to the TLE&W.

To your point then, I wonder if NS has "blessed" this little arrangement already or not... (if the people behind it weren't smart enough to get NS on board first then that $1,800 filing fee was probably a total waste of money).

I do not know that information, nor have I been privileged to the original lease information. As you mentioned MDH, hopefully someone has done their homework to make this deal go through.

[Robert MacDowell]

I would think NS would only be thrilled to have more business.

However, it's going to create an operating problem for the TLE&W. How do I describe this?... Right now, the FRA inspector comes, he looks around, he may seem very officious depending on the personality of the inspector. However mysteriously he doesn't write them up for anything relating to locomotive, track, passenger cars, rulebook, operating practices or engineer licensing. Museums often take to believing that FRA regulations apply to them, and the inspector is "being a nice guy". NO SIR. The truth is here. http://www.fra.dot.gov/pages/2348.shtml

The TLE&W is not insular because it has a grade crossing. However it is not "part of the general system of transportation", because REVENUE freight trains do not polish its rails. Because of this middle position, it is EXEMPT from most FRA regulations. That's why they don't get written up! He's not a nice guy! He CAN'T write you up!!! He's not allowed to. (so why does he inspect at all? See the last paragraph of the letter.)

Now, if a REVENUE freight train polished its rails, that particular, polished track would enter the "general system". The entire universe of FRA regulations (except 238 and 239) would apply to any train which rtouched that particular track. If you keep the passenger trains on separate parts of the railroad, that is fine. But if the passenger train went on the freight-shiny track, BLAM - the entire rulebook would apply. No more Mr. Nice Guy! Now volunteers have to comply with the whole book of regs, and that may be a bridge too far for volunteers.

By the way... how exactly does one join the TLE&W as a member? I've meant to for awhile.

[conrailfan]

I would think NS would only be thrilled to have more business.

However, it's going to create an operating problem for the TLE&W. How do I describe this?... Right now, the FRA inspector comes, he looks around, he may seem very officious depending on the personality of the inspector. However mysteriously he doesn't write them up for anything relating to locomotive, track, passenger cars, rulebook, operating practices or engineer licensing. Museums often take to believing that FRA regulations apply to them, and the inspector is "being a nice guy". NO SIR. The truth is here. http://www.fra.dot.gov/pages/2348.shtml

The TLE&W is not insular because it has a grade crossing. However it is not "part of the general system of transportation", because REVENUE freight trains do not polish its rails. Because of this middle position, it is EXEMPT from most FRA regulations. That's why they don't get written up! He's not a nice guy! He CAN'T write you up!!! He's not allowed to. (so why does he inspect at all? See the last paragraph of the letter.)

Now, if a REVENUE freight train polished its rails, that particular, polished track would enter the "general system". The entire universe of FRA regulations (except 238 and 239) would apply to any train which rtouched that particular track. If you keep the passenger trains on separate parts of the railroad, that is fine. But if the passenger train went on the freight-shiny track, BLAM - the entire rulebook would apply. No more Mr. Nice Guy! Now volunteers have to comply with the whole book of regs, and that may be a bridge too far for volunteers.

By the way... how exactly does one join the TLE&W as a member? I've meant to for awhile.

Just an FYI the TLE&W track has bee shut down due to the FRA and we just had to upgrade all of our crossbucks to the new FRA style Yes we do have to follow FRA guidelines. Our old inspector was "Just a nice guy" But we have a new one now.

[conrailfan]

I originally typed just "LOLZ" figuring there would be a ten character minimum on posts. I was then going to put an irrelevant statement like this in once my original was rejected. Looks like I was wrong.

I have to agree to your LOLZ statement.

[AARR]

I was then going to put an irrelevant statement like this in once my original was rejected.

I am the proud award winning Mr Irrelevant of RailroadFan.com You have a long way to go to take my title away from me

[DT&I]

What is the probability of this happening?