warning: don't film by the Lima tank plant

[alittlevanwerty]

Well I did my usual Lima railfan day today. Lots of good movements as usual, nice EMD power and some friendly railroaders. The day started out cold and gloomy but turned out to be good filming weather. At the NS yard they had 3320 SD40-2 HH, another one I hadn't filmed and 1021, a SD70ACe. When I saw the extra power I knew what was coming, another Corman storage train! I went by Corman's Celina yard about 8 am and their locos were still at the shop and not warmed up so I knew it wouldn't be til the afternoon that it would be heading to Lima. I left looking looking for Corman about 1pm, but didn't have to go far. I could see the headlight from Shawnee Rd so I turned back to Lima. I choose to set my shot up next to the monument next to the tank plant. As the train approached I line up my shot and got the 3 Corman Gp16's in my sights. Unfortunately I was approach by a park ranger and questioned who I work for, what am I doing, do I have the tank plant's permission or CSX's permission (its NS tracks dumb a). He called for backup but I kept filming! The army police showed up and made me stop filming. For the next hour I was detained by the monument. They reviewed my footage, supposedly if anything of the tank plant was on there the whole camera would be sent to the pentagon! They called CSX police because of the CSX trains I had on my cam, all the shots were from crosswalks so they wasted more of everyone's time. Their commander gave me a stern warning to not be filming there and no where else around. Ha first thing I did after I got out of there was get to where the NS branches off CSX on the north end because its not often that there is a NS ACe in Lima!

As soon as we got into Van Wert, the gates were coming down. CFE necer ran the FWLI back to FW last night, they NREX went east to get a empty welded rail train. Was a good sized LIFW, we got ahead of it in Convoy.

Anyone else had bad run ins with their filming photography? About 9 vids coming, it will take some time. Only about 10 gigs today!

[AARR]

Yes, unfortunatel there are still some misinformed officers and securit that detain railfans. Hopefully it will be ending sooner rather than later as the word gets out what reall is an infraction and what isn't.

[railohio]

I didn't have a problem:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/railohio/6131237458/

[alittlevanwerty]

Yes I have seen your pic before, Its a public location maintained by the Johnny Appleseed Park District. Also I was within road right of way. When you film the same areas week after week, people recognize you. This is the 4th time (at least) that I've filmed this crossing. At least they did not seize my camera, it cost a lot of money! And had a whole days worth of vid.

[Clementine]

its a tank plant. those guys, and railroad workers, are told to report anyone especially someone taking pictures of oil tanks, to deter terrorist attacks. congratulations, terrorist

[alittlevanwerty]

Lol I think the CSX hat and the Lehigh Valley RR shirt plus the I Love Trains license plate holder sure inspires terror.

I wonder what the Corman crew though when they passed, me crouched down by my cam with 2 army cops questioning me, with me not even bothering to take my eyes off the train.

[cr6903]

I used to work as a Security Guard at the Tank Plant. They have Contracted Security there as well as Department of Defense Police. It doesn't surprise me that they would question, as they are pretty strict about photography and suspicious activity there. The company I currently work for sometimes makes deliveries out there, and they have to know who and what is coming or access is denied. They're pretty serious.
I'm glad I had the opportunity to be out there, as it is a pretty interesting place. I got to see a lot I wouldn't otherwise have. If the job would have been more secure I'd still be there.

I think I saw you at 4th street after a Southbound Rack train passed by. I was driving a company delivery truck. I was going to yell out "Van Werty!", but my luck it would have been someone else! I was working, so I couldn't stop and say Hi anyway.

[Big Frank]

Hell I took a pic once of the Michigan shore backing cars into a plant in Muskegon and little did I know they wrote my plate number down and turned me into Homeland security who than contacted me a month later And asked me to come down to the Fed building in GR well i went down they had a massive file on me. they were tacking my truck through onstar for a month WTF than i had to go get my comp after i told them i was a rail fan and show them the pics i took along with many other ones than i was let go and the case was closed what a hassle that was tho

[railroadchoad]

Wow, Frank. It sounds like the Michigan Shore has some real A$$#oles for crew members for them to actually record the licence number of an obvious railfan taking pictures. I am a railroader and I NEVER assume that someone is out to plot a terrorist strike against us. I assume that they are foamers who are taking innocent pictures that they will take home and at worst, touch themselves while viewing them. That is about as bad as it will get. Some of my fellow railroaders take this "see something: say something" crap WAY too seriously!

Is there anything that you saw, Vanwerty, that can't be learned by simply viewing GoogleEarth in the privacy of your own home? I think not. Just a bunch of Barney Fifes trying to justify their existence. Good for you for not being intimidated by them. Throwing around their authority is how they get their job done. If someone backs down before their constitutional rights are violated than no harm is done. That is how they are trained to do their jobs.

[Big Frank]

Wow, Frank. It sounds like the Michigan Shore has some real A$$#oles for crew members for them to actually record the licence number of an obvious railfan taking pictures. I am a railroader and I NEVER assume that someone is out to plot a terrorist strike against us. I assume that they are foamers who are taking innocent pictures that they will take home and at worst, touch themselves while viewing them. That is about as bad as it will get. Some of my fellow railroaders take this "see something: say something" crap WAY too seriously!

lol Touch themselves AWESOME!!!! lol it wasn't the shore that turned me in it was some one that worked at the facility

[M.D.Bentley]

I have you all beat ! One of my over zealous coworkers saw another coworker with a camera crew from out of town filming city scenes and wrote down his plate number and turned it over to the police. Well the vehicle was registered to the guys father and a group of various police officers went to his dads house. After about an hour he convinced them that he nor his son were any danger and the his son is a RAILROAD EMPLOYEE ! Some people.

[AC60CW]

Too many people have bought into the whole conspiracy theory crap...black helicopters...secret groups...Free Masons taking over the world...9/11 was a government operation. The list goes on and on. If a terrorist was going to plot an attack on a rail line, all they have to do is sit on a rail line...and guess what...a train will almost always pass by sooner or later.

[alittlevanwerty]

That probably was me.

I don't know how Id react if Homeland Security tried to get me to come to them, probably hang up. Worst they could really do is put me on the do not fly list.

People are nuts.

[bctrainfan]

That probably was me.

I don't know how Id react if Homeland Security tried to get me to come to them, probably hang up. Worst they could really do is put me on the do not fly list.

People are nuts.

Nah, worst they could do is come pick you up. They have some pretty wide latitude under current laws to detain people. This is not just a railfan issue, photographers of all kinds have been targetted, at airports, seaports, critical industries, gov't buildings, etc. Had a guy of middle eatern appearance who was taking pics of buildings and bridges in my area, who was brought in and detained for a number of hours while FBI confirmed his story that he was only a college architecture student compiling pics for a school project. He was telling the truth and was finally released with a "sorry, thanks for your time."

On the other hand, real terrorist often have large quanities of pics/video of potential targets used for planning attacks. We all know its a one in a million shot to grab an actual terrorist by checking out suspicious persons, but it has happened. And if they do miss that one bad guy, the conseqences can be huge. So, I want the guys who are responsible for security to be very careful, and thorough. Unfortunately, they sometimes aren't very tactful or sensible in how they go about it.

In any case, best bet when questioned by police or security is to be polite, truthful and cooperative. Being hostile will just cause far more hassle.

[MagnumForce]

its a tank plant. those guys, and railroad workers, are told to report anyone especially someone taking pictures of oil tanks, to deter terrorist attacks. congratulations, terrorist

No... Tanks, as in military vehicles with tracks and big guns.

[Big Frank]

its a tank plant. those guys, and railroad workers, are told to report anyone especially someone taking pictures of oil tanks, to deter terrorist attacks. congratulations, terrorist

No... Tanks, as in military vehicles with tracks and big guns.

Ahhh Abrams than not tank cars LMAO woops

[alittlevanwerty]

Well I edited the Corman shot and the NS SD70ACe vids into one so here it is. Turn up the volume and you can here the conversation. I hate hearing myself.



And here are the other vids from yesterday...





Still 5 more in the process of uploading lol

[AC60CW]

Remember, you don't have to show ID if you aren't doing anything illegal. Like Brent has done, ask them if you are doing something illegal. If they say no, then they don't have any reason to continue to harass you. If they try to say you are trespassing and you are on public property, they are wrong. If they try to tell you that you are filming something you don't have permission to, they are wrong (provided you are not trespassing). The more daring people (if they know they are in the right) will ignore them, challenging them to try and do something. If they touch you, try to detain you or seize your property they are violating your rights. Many places on this forums are more informative write ups on this subject. The most important thing is to know you rights, and to avoid giving them anything to use. Parking you vehicle is a big thing also to think of.

Being nice to them is a good start. Usually they just ask you a couple quick questions and leave you be. But, when it escalates beyond that it is cause for concern.

[alittlevanwerty]

I was freindly with them and handed them my id even before the locos had passed. I never thought to ask the if I was actually breaking the law though.

I am surprised they didn't call AEP also because I parked in the driveway of the power lines across the tracks.

[MagnumForce]

They have no right to see your camera or see you id, be polite but ask them some simple questions. If they detain you, hello ACLU. They were in every way wrong in that video, number one you were at what for all intents and purposes is a public park and therefore anything and everything is open game. Let them try to detain you all they want but ask if you are parked illegally, if where you are standing is illegal, if filming things from a public area is illegal (if they say yes then you have them) do not under any circumstances allow them to see your camera, they cannot take it from you without a warrant. Was the person a real bonded officer or simply a rent a cop? Rent a cops are clueless and not even worthy of your time and have no right to ask you a thing on public property.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf