Butler Indiana train frequency

[Toppysager]

Over Easter I am going to Butler and I was wondering about good NKP times. I know the basic timetables for NS waterlevel route trains but I know virtually nothing about the ex-NKP to Fort Wayne and I was wondering what the peak points of activity are on that line. Also what times the CPs typically come. Are they in daylight or nighttime hours? Finally are there any other good locations around around butler that are interesting for railfaning? Amos

[SD80MAC]

The NKP never went through Butler. It's the old Wabash from Detroit.

[wildcatsa1fan]

I guess in a way the NKP did run through there as they leased to wabash from the pennsy in the early 60's!!

[MagnumForce]

The Pennsy leased the Wabash to the N&W in 1960. In 1964 the N&W merged the NKP, the Wabash was still leased up until 1991 when the N&W merged the Wabash. Up until that time Wabash stock was still publicly traded although the N&W owned 99% percent of the stock that the Pennsylvania Company divested themselves of in 1970. The Wabash was never leased by the NKP.

[Toppysager]

I meant the wabash

[Y@]

OK

[wildcatsa1fan]

Opps meant N&W and in a round about way the NKP/Wabash LOL

[Steve B]

Although it had been planned since 1960, the Wabash wasn't leased to the N&W until Oct. 1964. Equipment was still painted in WAB colors right up to that date.

[MagnumForce]

Leased in 1960 but operations were not merged till October of 64 when the lines were all actually put together with the Pennsy from Columbus to Sandusky. Remember without the Sandusky line the old NW never actually touched the NKP or Wabash.

Note the change in colors from Wabash Bluebird to NW blue and Yellow around 1960.

[JohnnyO]

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. The lease became effective on October 16, 1964. There was earlier agreement but nothing was done until the merger date of the NKP. The Pittsburgh and West Virginia was also leased at this time.

[StupidFlee​t]

From Wikipedia:

In fall of 1960, the PRR agreed to a lease of the Wabash by the Norfolk and Western Railway.

The PRR's Detroit, Toledo and Ironton Railroad assumed control of the Wabash's Ann Arbor on December 31, 1962. On October 16, 1964 the New York, Chicago and St. Louis Railroad (Nickel Plate Road) merged into the Norfolk and Western Railway, and the N&W leased the Wabash and Pittsburgh and West Virginia Railway.

[berkmeister]

In regards to the N&W, the blue scheme with yellow lettering on locos didn't come out till 1966. This was in anticipation of N&W's merger with the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway. When N&W took over in 1964, black was still N&W's color scheme. NKP and Wabash diesels were re-painted into the black scheme first, some were later painted again into the blue scheme. The "yellow" lettering actually was a "gold" lettering scheme applied. Berkmeister

[MagnumForce]

Here is some insight to help those who may be inthe dark as to all of the mergers and various take overs by the N&W(post VGN and ACY). In 1962 the N&W began the process with the ICC to merge with the NKP and WAB, and both fell under N&W control in 1964. This is the beginning of the F4 scheme. The F4 scheme is known as the Pevlar scheme, as areference to the fmr. President of the WAB and it was his desicion to repaint all of the Bluebirds (WAB units)into the all blue scheme. When N&W became the strongest of all of the merger parties, they adopted this scheme and hence made it official on all of their units, post 1964. Many of the older N&W units were slated to be repainted and most did, and the use of Pevlar blue paint caused many of the units to fade quickly. At this time the merger talks bagan with C&O and renumbering slots were created, however this fell through and was not to be. Then in 1970 all of the units in need of paint were to be painted in the F5 scheme, in an effort to save money their units were given a simplified scheme of black and the " N & W " herald.

[MagnumForce]

May or may not be accurate

[JohnnyO]

May or may not be accurate

It's accurate, lease became effective on merger day, October 16, 1964.

When the N&W and the C&O were talking merger, some N&W units had N&W in yellow on the engineroom doors instead of NORFOLK AND WESTERN. This didn't last long but there were a few around back then.