Police announce enforcement of railroad laws

[OwlCaboose2853]

Police announce enforcement of railroad laws
http://www.heritage.com/articles/2010/0 ... 279958.txt

The Norfolk-Southern Railroad Police will be enforcing trespassing laws along railroad tracks around the Ann Arbor area throughout July and August.

The University of Michigan Department of Public safety issued a news release indicating that the railroad police would start their campaign this month focusing on railroad property for the east-west commuter train line. That line includes the tracks near the U of M Medical Center and Mitchell field.

People walking along railroad property, including the tracks, railroad bed and adjoining easement, will be considered trespassing under Michigan law, the news release stated. The misdemeanor offense is punishable by up to 93 days in jail and a fine.

The law prohibits walking, riding, driving, or being upon or along right-of-way, which is defined as "the track or roadbed owned by a railroad and that property owned by a railroad, which is located on either side of its tracks and which is readily recognizable to a reasonable person as being railroad property or is reasonably identified as such by fencing, the existence of railroad tracks or appropriate signs," the law states.

University police recommend that people walking, jogging or traveling near railroad tracks should use the authorized sidewalks and streets instead of informal trails and worn pathways. They also remind residents that crossing the tracks is allowed only at marked railroad crossings.

A 50-year-old Dearborn man was struck and killed by a train in the area of Mitchell Field on Fuller Road in March 2009. He was reportedly trying to jump onto the train to hitch a ride when he was hit, police said.

[Typhoon]

Good, it is about time! I hope they do it in other places as well.

[AARR]

Oh, they do. And IMO it's wasted resources.

In this case it was someone who tried jumping on a train which is a big no-no. It wasn't your typical pedestrian crossing the tracks to get from point A to point B. Will ticketing pedestrians stop the idiots who jump on trains??? I don't think so but the railroads data must indicate otherwise...or maybe their reaction is misguided and will not be effective. They'll simply piss a lot of people off...but not reduce by even one incident the idiots who don't care about rules.

IMO police resources would be better dedicated to other acts against the railroad such as the train jumpers, thieves, vandals, etc. and leave the pedestrians alone.

If NS wants to station a police officer in Ann Arbor to catch a train jumper that would make sense too me. But ticketing every person who crosses the tracks seems excessive and wasted effort. Maybe even talk to pedestrians and solicit their help reporting people who engage in the more dangerous activities around railroads.

I'd like to think that the railroads know what they're doing and, despite my effort to educate myself, I just haven't seen the light.

[Typhoon]

Oh, they do. And IMO it's wasted resources.

In this case it was someone who tried jumping on a train which is a big no-no. It wasn't your typical pedestrian crossing the tracks to get from point A to point B. Will ticketing pedestrians stop the idiots who jump on trains??? I don't think so but the railroads data must indicate otherwise...or maybe their reaction is misguided and will not be effective. They'll simply piss a lot of people off...but not reduce by even one incident the idiots who don't care about rules.

IMO police resources would be better dedicated to other acts against the railroad such as the train jumpers, thieves, vandals, etc. and leave the pedestrians alone.

If NS wants to station a police officer in Ann Arbor to catch a train jumper that would make sense too me. But ticketing every person who crosses the tracks seems excessive and wasted effort. Maybe even talk to pedestrians and solicit their help reporting people who engage in the more dangerous activities around railroads.

I'd like to think that the railroads know what they're doing and, despite my effort to educate myself, I just haven't seen the light.

Piss people off for inforcing the laws? To bad so sad. While the last incident may not have been a reguler old pedestrian tresspasser, too many of the plain old tresspassers end up stuck to the front of an engine. These pedestrian/tresspasser incidents cost the railroads an untold amount of dollars. IMO the railroads should go after tresspassers with as much effort as possible.

[AARR]

Piss people off for inforcing the laws? To bad so sad. While the last incident may not have been a reguler old pedestrian tresspasser, too many of the plain old tresspassers end up stuck to the front of an engine. These pedestrian/tresspasser incidents cost the railroads an untold amount of dollars. IMO the railroads should go after tresspassers with as much effort as possible.

The railroad trespassing laws are overkill because it gives railroads the right to protect their property. Not because your typical pedestrian poses a danger to the railroad or as you put it, "ends up stuck in front of an engine". I believe that's an exaggeration. Numerous law abiding people cross the tracks every day without incident.

It's the people who don't care about rules that pose the most trouble and I'm still trying to understand how ticketing pedestrians, like you and me, can improve safety.

[Typhoon]

Piss people off for inforcing the laws? To bad so sad. While the last incident may not have been a reguler old pedestrian tresspasser, too many of the plain old tresspassers end up stuck to the front of an engine. These pedestrian/tresspasser incidents cost the railroads an untold amount of dollars. IMO the railroads should go after tresspassers with as much effort as possible.

The railroad trespassing laws are overkill because it gives railroads the right to protect their property. Not because your typical pedestrian poses a danger to the railroad or as you put it, "ends up stuck in front of an engine". I believe that's an exaggeration. Numerous law abiding people cross the tracks every day without incident.

It's the people who don't care about rules that pose the most trouble and I'm still trying to understand how ticketing pedestrians, like you and me, can improve safety.

If you care about the rules, you won't tresspass, so you won't be ticketed. The numerous law abiding people that cross the tracks every day, at marked grade crossing and will be left alone. The numerous NON las abiding people that cross at areas that are not public property should and hopefully will be ticketed. I don't see how protecting property by ticketing tresspassers is overkill? As someone who gets the emergancy call when one of your wonderful pedestrians gets smashed by a train because they were in a place they shouldn't have been, I am all for more enforcement. If ticketing these people means that I get one less emergancy call in my railroading career, it is worth it.



BTW I was looking for a place to hold a birthday party in September, I guess it is OK with you if we just show up in your backyard and go to town. I promise I will not break any other laws.

[Buster Manning]

I say, it's about darn time; AARR, if you could see just how many idiots there are on the tracks in the AA area and how close they come to being statistics, you would change your mind. I worked yesterday and almost took out 4 teenage boys on the bridge by the M-14 overpass (and this bridge has a long history with 'incidents')--and this is an everyday thing, all year long along this corridor--pretty much from Ypsi to Dexter. I have had some people give me dirty looks after I blew the horn at them to get their attention while they were walking in the middle of the tracks(??), gotten the bird and have had rocks throw at me while going by people on the tracks, and these people are not 'pedestrians' who are simply walking over the tracks, but are hanging out on the bridges and right-of-way knowingly--which is what most of the statistics are from and who the RR police are targeting, not the one example that was mentioned with a train-jumper.

[canpac08]

I am glad to see the enforcement of railroad laws, As a railroader and railfan. I have spent time in yards where I have seen trespassers and seen trespasser while in line of road. They are a different breed then your average railfan. Those people tend to see the railroad right of way as a short cut. I will say most railfans are respectful of railroad property. and the Enforcement is directed more towards trespasser's and not decent railfans

[tazer]

My Rant from my view point.
People show the same disregard for the trains as they do for other vehiclular traffic, I't's nothing to have 3 or 4 near misses a trip Twice now I have had to yell at people from the engine to look behind them at the train about to run them down. They have been walking towards our train in the gauge of the next main looking at us and not looking back to see their impending death coming at them at 60 mph and not able to hear the horn or see the look of panic on the train crew about to kill them. If you've never been in that situation you don't know the helpless feeling that comes over you when you think you are about to gruesomley end someones life.

Someone put a bunch of debris on the tracks near a crossing a few weeks ago fortunatley we hit it on the side away from the oncoming traffic and it went out into the trees like it was shot out of a gun, imagine what that would have done to someone sitting in a car at the crossing. I would like it if the RR cops rode with us once a day to see what goes on and where the bad spots are.
Most railfans are great they take pictures stay off the tracks I wave at them and everyone goes home at the end of the day. Innocent people walking the tracks get killed because they were innocently walking the tracks minding their own business and not paying attention to the 8000 ton 60 mph battering ram coming around the curve
take it seriously when they say they are going to crack down trespassers I report people walking the tracks, it is part of our duties as employees I would rather have you give me the finger than pick up your hand from the side of the tracks.
That's all I have to say I better stop now.

[AARR]

From the examples you give I can see your point.

But I think were talking about two different things.

Buster - you know in Durand where the fence line ends at the west end and there's an old grade crossing. I was there last year when the CN police officer was issuing tickets to people for crossing the tracks at that point. The people weren't walking along the ROW, weren't sitting on the tracks, weren't walking in the middle of the tracks, weren't loitering on railroad property...they were simply crossing (as in going across) the tracks going from point A to B. When I read about railroad police officers issuing tickets to pedestrians that's what I envision. This is what I believe should not be ticketed.

In the cases all of you gave I see your point and agree whole-heartily that the laws should be enforced upon them.

[conrailmike]

Since it's not a grade crossing, it becomes railroad property in which you are not supposed to be on. CN told people this, and some did not listen. They weren't walking along the ROW, they were ON the ROW - what's the difference? You don't listen, you get a ticket....seems pretty simple to me. What will happen if they start little things let slide here and there?
As railfans we need to be supportive of this 100%. If they can't keep the normal pedestrians in check, they'll end up putting more fences along ROW's and we'll be the ones who will really end up losing.

[TrainWatcher]

Can't agree more, now for CN to get on the band wagon Downriver

[Buster Manning]

AARR, I know exactly where you are talking about, and,...........I guess old habits die hard---like calling a certain rr by it's old name----LONG LIVE THE C&O!!!!:-)-----------but crossing the tracks at a location that ISN"T a crossing anymore isn't ok, even if that person has been doing it for years and looks both ways to see if there is any train traffic coming. Which brings up a question for me: how long has that crossing been out?? I'm a little curious if there was any thought in that while crossing consolidation is a good thing, that crossing on the east end of town is a little hazardous with a cross street intersecting the crossing itself and the cross street doesn't have gates on it---not that gates will stop everybody when they are down And since pain is usually the best attention getter--especially in your wallet--the only way to get people to stop crossing there is to get their attention; only problem I have with the situation there is that there isn't a CN police officer there everyday, so people think it's ok 'cause the po-po ain't there to stop you.

[TSB]

If you saw a man in your back yard pointing a camera at your house, you would call
the cops even though he was otherwise only standing innocently in the dark?

If you saw a group of people out in your orchard would you ignore them knowing that
most people are honest and wouldn't steal your crop?

Are you free to walk into the vault at a bank, open the display case of a panting at a
museum or wander freely around the production area of a factory?

If you make prior arrangements with a RR you are more likely to find an accommodating
host there than almost any other business venture in the country.

Walk onto railroad property in many countries and they will shoot your ass.

[chapmaja]

This would explain why I saw a police car slowly driving along the ROW across from the station on Saturday about 1:30. It went from approximately from the Gandy Dancer to the area near the Argo Dam. I saw this as I was driving along Depot street ad then Main St.

[Mick]

Hey, if the railroads want to keep trespassers---whether benign or malignant---from doing anything that endangers train crews, the rest of the public, or even the most Darwinian of those trespassers themselves, that's fine. It is their property, after all.
But I will reserve judgement on the effectiveness of it until I see a decrease in the amount of graffiti on railroad equipment. While trespassing is trespassing, a 'tagger' has to partake in a lot more risky behavior---for a longer period of time---than the occasional pedestrian does.
But again, I'll 'side' with the railroaders on this issue. It's their porch, and I don't want anyone crapping on it.


Mick

[AARR]

What will happen if they start little things let slide here and there?

Good point CRM!

[conrailmike]

What will happen if they start little things let slide here and there?

Good point CRM!

That was supposed to say "What will happen if they start letting the little things slide here and there?" I just noticed that I goofed up typing that.

[AARR]

What will happen if they start little things let slide here and there?

Good point CRM!

That was supposed to say "What will happen if they start letting the little things slide here and there?" I just noticed that I goofed up typing that.

I know what you meant.

I think a lot of good points were made and I understand better the railroads point of view.

[chapmaja]

But I will reserve judgement on the effectiveness of it until I see a decrease in the amount of graffiti on railroad equipment. While trespassing is trespassing, a 'tagger' has to partake in a lot more risky behavior---for a longer period of time---than the occasional pedestrian does.
But again, I'll 'side' with the railroaders on this issue. It's their porch, and I don't want anyone crapping on it.


Mick

This will not have any affect on the amount of graffitti on railroad equipment. The only trains that stop at this location are Amtrak trains servicing the station in Ann Arbor. The daily NS trains rarely ever stop in this area, unless they are switching the siding art train used to be on for some reason.


There are three things that have been happening for years along this section.

First, Amtrak passengers have been using the ROW to walk across to the station from the long term parking lot, instead of using the bridge that was built for them to cross.

Second, the Ann Arbor homeless have long been living in this area of town. The underside of the broadway bridge has been a long time hangout for homeless, as have the undersides of several railroad bridges between the UofM IM fields and the M-14 area bridges.

Third, in the past there have been issues with people throwing rocks at train crews as they pass the area.

All of these are potential reasons for the crackdown on tresspassers on this section of track through AA.