GRAYLING — A Saginaw railroad company must pay nearly $300,000 in restitution as part of a criminal case stemming from a 2008 wildfire that began allegedly because the company failed to equip its engine with a state-mandated fire safety device.....................................
............In September, the Grayling Game Club filed a $1 million lawsuit against the company. Several buildings on the non-profit group’s property were destroyed in the blaze, Times records show.
$300,000 is probably a big hit for them. Insurance will probably cover it but then rates go up. It'll take more than the few extra carloads of flyash and hard board they've picked up recently to pay for that.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...
AARR wrote:$300,000 is probably a big hit for them. Insurance will probably cover it but then rates go up. It'll take more than the few extra carloads of flyash and hard board they've picked up recently to pay for that.
Depends on their insurance. 10 years ago, the GRE was on the hook for the first $250,000.
M.D.Bentley wrote:Equipment issue - Not a crew issue. Blame falls on the company, if any.
Doesn't the crew check on equipment before going in service? Not sure how that works in the rail service..
If I'm reading it correctly the equipment was not installed on the engines and that's what LSRC is being fined for
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...
M.D.Bentley wrote:Equipment issue - Not a crew issue. Blame falls on the company, if any.
Doesn't the crew check on equipment before going in service? Not sure how that works in the rail service..
Once again..."Arm Chair Railroading at it's best".... If people would look to the government, and hold them accountable....the "Tree Huggers" have the Dems over a barrel...no clear cutting of brush...to protect the enviroment...it builds up, and drys out..... Those "beloved" Alco's that everyone loves...have heavy build up of soot when idling....when they throttle up...go figure..SPARKS!!
Do you think spark arrestors will stop a spark?? Nope...they are pretty small.. Just another way for our great leadership to squeeze a dime out of someone trying to make a dollar...
I guess no one pays close attention to national news....California wild fires....
gtw5812 wrote:Do you think spark arrestors will stop a spark?? Nope...they are pretty small.. Just another way for our great leadership to squeeze a dime out of someone trying to make a dollar...
I figured they were like condoms...they won't prevent but will reduce risk of escape
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...
It was an accident plain and simple. Could have easily been a sticking brake, spark from a piece of MOW equipment or a hot exhaust pipe of a hi-rail truck parked in dry brush that could start a similar fire. Problem seems to be how the LSRC handled the fire and responded to the investigation. Truth always comes out..... unless one has an expensive lawyer...
M.D.Bentley wrote:Equipment issue - Not a crew issue. Blame falls on the company, if any.
Doesn't the crew check on equipment before going in service? Not sure how that works in the rail service..
Once again..."Arm Chair Railroading at it's best".... If people would look to the government, and hold them accountable....the "Tree Huggers" have the Dems over a barrel...no clear cutting of brush...to protect the enviroment...it builds up, and drys out..... Those "beloved" Alco's that everyone loves...have heavy build up of soot when idling....when they throttle up...go figure..SPARKS!!
Do you think spark arrestors will stop a spark?? Nope...they are pretty small.. Just another way for our great leadership to squeeze a dime out of someone trying to make a dollar...
I guess no one pays close attention to national news....California wild fires....
I'm not arm chair railroading I asked what I believed to be a legitimate question since I don't know how that works. Hope it's not too high up there on your soap box...
M.D.Bentley wrote:Equipment issue - Not a crew issue. Blame falls on the company, if any.
Doesn't the crew check on equipment before going in service? Not sure how that works in the rail service..
Well, we sure don't go climbing all over the locomotive to make sure every nut and bolt is in place. As TE&Y employees, our job is to move the train, deliver the freight, not make a full mechanical inspection of the equipment. Our locomotive inspection is limited to everything we use, in the cab and on the ground. We are not required nor encouraged to get on the roof to make any inspections or go in the engine compartment for that matter. That's a different department. Keep in mind, this is coming from a Class I guy, although I have a short tenure on a Class III...
Mr. Tops wrote:As TE&Y employees, our job is to move the train, deliver the freight, not make a full mechanical inspection of the equipment. Our locomotive inspection is limited to everything we use, in the cab and on the ground. We are not required nor encouraged to get on the roof to make any inspections or go in the engine compartment for that matter. That's a different department. Keep in mind, this is coming from a Class I guy, although I have a short tenure on a Class III...
Try using that excuse when you have a derailment caused by something you should have seen.
Locomotive engineer's are responsible for performing a 'calendar day' inspection of every locomotive they intend to use. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are about 100 steps to do a proper calendar day inspection on a locomotive. Tops is right, I don't know if the engine block has all its parts, but I am responsible to look for anything obviously broken, missing, or out of place. I still give a 'walk around' to locomotives I get out of a shop, as even shop forces can miss something. FRA says if its on a car or locomotive, it has to work.
Conductors are responsible for a full mechanical inspection of the freight cars they pick up during their initial inspection on line of road. Again, air brakes work, nothing broken or missing, safety appliances are in place, not bent or destroyed, lading not protruding, etc etc etc. FRA says it should take 3 minutes to do a full initial inspection on a car. In a terminal where car department forces, or locomotive shop forces, are present, then T&E employees must accept those department's inspections of the equipment. Outside of a shop location, the ground personnel are responsible for any inspection and reporting of equipment defects. The vast majority of the work that takes place on the railroad, takes place out of a location where shop forces are responsible.
It's not an excuse. We're talking about spark arrestors here, not something that could potentially cause a derailment. That's a completely different story. But on the same token, you are not required to climb underneath freight cars/locomotives to check for defects. What if the bolster pin is cracked and breaks completely off enroute and causes a derailment. But when you inspected the car, it appeared sound. Are they going to fire me because I followed the rules and didn't climb under the car? To each, his own, but I'm not going to break the rules because I think I'm sucking up to the company. If they want me to inspect under or on top of cars/locomotives, they'll let me know and make subsequent changes to the rules.
You can't see spark arrestors from the ground, so where will you fit those into your walk-around inspection or cab inspection? Please don't tell me you climb on top of the engine to make sure it has spark arrestors...especially this time of the year. Nowhere in the daily locomotive inspection does it state that you are required to climb on the top of the locomotive and identify that the unit has spark arrestors...
Here's what GCOR says:
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31.2.2: Conducting a Locomotive Daily Inspection
Not all defects are non-complying conditions. However, the following items are non-complying conditions if they do not function properly during the daily inspection. Remote control locomotives must be in manual mode when conducting inspection. Inspect these three general areas of each locomotive:
Note: B-units and units designated or modified not to be occupied, are not required to have or be equipped with all the devices included in the inspection.
A. Control Compartment/Locomotive Cab
Verify that FRA Form F 6180-49A (blue card) is displayed under a transparent cover in the cab of each locomotive. Union Pacific locomotives have an entry in the "REMARKS" section at the bottom of the blue card (Form
FRA F-6180-49A) which reads "Do Not Use After: mm/dd/yy". Verify that the locomotive has not passed this date.
Operate sanders to deposit sand in front of each locomotive's lead wheels using the reverser position to
determine the direction.
Ensure that:
1. Each air gauge registers correctly and is within 3 psi of the required pressure. See Rule 31.7 (Standard Air Pressures).
2. At least one headlight bulb is to be operational on each end of the locomotive consist.
3. At least one of two ditch lights is operational in the direction of travel.
4. Horn operates.
5. Bell operates.
6. Gauge lights and engineer's overhead cab light illuminate. If burned out and other available lighting is sufficient to allow visibility from the crew's normal position, report as a defect but not a non-complying condition.
7. Speed indicator functions accurately. After a daily inspection, if the speed indicator failure is identified on the lead locomotive as soon as it begins moving, the failure is a non-complying condition discovered during the daily inspection.
8. Locomotive cab is free of stumbling or slipping hazards.
9. Windows provide a clear view. Small cracks that do not obscure view must be reported as a defect but not a non-complying condition.
10. The locomotive toilet facility is sanitary and operational.
11. No traction motors have been cut out. However, on GE AC, GE-8 DC, GE-9 DC & EMD AC locomotives, one or more traction motors/trucks may be cut out and not considered a noncomplying condition.
12. Cab seats are properly secured.
13. Locomotives equipped with dynamic braking will be considered as having a non-complying condition if dynamic brake has been defective for 30 continuous days. However, this does not apply to locomotives with dynamic brake permanently disabled by mechanical forces.
14. Only a head end unit (HEU) calibrated within the last 368 days may be used. Exception: Calibration is not required on the Wabtec HEU with the sticker reading, “This unit is equipped with a Wabtec synthesized radio that complies with FRA-2004-18895”.
Note: Locomotives with defect items 3,4,5,6,7,9, and 10 above, may be used in power as trailing units. These defects must always be reported, but are considered non-complying only when positioned in locomotive consist as the lead controlling locomotive.
B. Walkway and Engine Compartment
Inspect both sides of each locomotive to ensure that:
1. Walkways and walk-in compartments (car body-type locomotives) are clear of debris, tools, and accumulated oil or grease that present a hazard to the crew.
2. Handrails, hand holds, steps, ladders, safety chains, and guards are secured and ready for service. Inspect for broken, bent, damaged, or loose equipment. Make sure safety chains are connected high enough for safe passage.
3. All electrical and rotating equipment guards are in place.
4. The diesel engine has no apparent exhaust, oil, water, or fuel leaks.
5. The hand brake is operational.
6. Walkway and engine compartment lights are working. If burned out and other available lighting is sufficient to allow visibility from the crew's normal position, report as a defect but not a noncomplying condition.
C. Ground Level
Inspect the exposed areas for apparent defects, but do not crawl under or between locomotives to make the visual inspection. Set hand brakes, if necessary, and walk around both sides of the locomotive to ensure that:
1. Sand is deposited on the rail in front of the lead wheels of each locomotive in consist.
Exceptions:
● In road service as lead locomotive, if sanders are found to be defective enroute, locomotive may continue in service until it is placed in a repair facility, but under no conditions for more than 14 calendar days.
● In road service as trailing locomotive, if sanders are found to be defective enroute, locomotive may continue in service until it is placed in a repair facility.
● In switching service, if sanders are found to be defective at a location where repair facilities are not available, locomotive may remain in service for not more than 7 calendar days.
2. Fuel tank is not leaking.
3. No defects such as cracks and broken or missing parts are on the:
● Locomotive trucks.
● Wheels.
● Gear cases.
● Draft gears.
4. Maximum brake cylinder piston travel is 1-1/2 inches less than the travel entered on FRA Form F 6180-49A (blue card) in the locomotive cab. Brake cylinder piston travel is:
● Minimum: Sufficient to provide brake shoe clearance when the brakes are released.
● Maximum: 1-1/2 inches less than the travel entered on FRA Form F 6180-49A (blue card) in the locomotive cab.
5. Foundation brake rigging is secured and all components other than wheels and sand hoses are at least 2 1/2 inches above the top of the rail.
6. Snowplow, pilot, or endplate is properly secured and is between 3 inches and 6 inches above the top of the rail.
7. Brake shoes are secured and approximately in line with the tread of the wheel. Make sure the shoe has no obvious lips or overhangs.
8. No part of the electrical cable is lying on the coupler.
9. Unused electrical cables are stowed, or the disconnected ends are placed into a dummy receptacle or a multiple-unit cable holder.
10. Manually drain oil and water from main reservoirs that are not equipped with automatic drains. If equipped with automatic drains, ensure the valve handles are then turned fully clockwise clockwise to the automatic position, with the stem extending beyond the valve handle.
11. There is no apparent physical damage to the ATC/ACS receiver bars on locomotives equipped with ATC/ACS. These bars are located above the rail and in front of the wheels. This requirement applies only to lead locomotives on trains operating in ATC/ACS territory. Any apparent damage must be reported but this does not constitute a non-complying defect.
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I can't seem to find where it states I'm required to make an inspection on the top of the locomotive. Nothing in there about spark arrestors either. While it's true, if a locomotive is required to have something, it's an FRA defect if that appliance is missing (or doesn't work), as TE&Y employees, we are not required to make THAT type of inspection. A detailed locomotive inspection as such, would have to be performed by mechanical. Call it an excuse, call it what you will, but there's nothing in the rules that can pin that on the crew.
M.D.Bentley wrote:Equipment issue - Not a crew issue. Blame falls on the company, if any.
Once again..."Arm Chair Railroading at it's best".... If people would look to the government, and hold them accountable....the "Tree Huggers" have the Dems over a barrel...no clear cutting of brush...to protect the enviroment...it builds up, and drys out..... Those "beloved" Alco's that everyone loves...have heavy build up of soot when idling....when they throttle up...go figure..SPARKS!!
EMD's do it to...So do GEs...and every other diesel I have been around that idle's.
12Bridge wrote:EMD's do it to...So do GEs...and every other diesel I have been around that idle's.
All diesels do it, whether they are idling or in run 8. I remember last year while working on the CF&E, taking a 130+ car train from Ft. Wayne to Lima with HLCX 1400 (MP15AC) and CF&E 3880 (GP38-2). Also had another GP38-2 but it was tagged and not running. I rode in the second unit (3 man crew) and watched it pour sparks out the entire trip in notch 8. Guess I should have climbed on the roof and fixed that problem...
I watched the C&M 7014 climb out of Ada at night after the GRE worked it hard all day on a lease. 7014 had worked at no more than a idle for 7-8 year previous. 8 hours after working hard it was still shooting carbon chunks out the stack like a roman candle. The 3839 was dead in tow behind it and the short hood was covered with carbon chunks the size of walnuts. The GRE Asst GM was just glad it had snowed the previous day. BTW, the spark arrestor on the 7014 was and is still missing.
The old GE's used to switch the east end if Wyoming yard used to shoot solid flame for 3-4 feet in the air on a hard shove. Pretty awesome sight as night.
Its fun when the soot pots catch fire to if they haven't been cleaned out. Point being, any engine left idling for any period of time will build carbon and oil up, and when it takes off, it goes. Spark arresters don't always do that great of a job.
