CSX says no!

[Pete Mayor]

Being that I live in Lansing I don't get out to Grand Rapids too often. Today I had some time and was in the area so went to Judd St. to watch trains. After a while a maintenance guy approached and then walked over and wrote my license plate down. He then came over to tell me that the official policy there now is that they are to tell anyone there that A: they are trespassing and B: taking photos of the trains is illegal. So they are under instructions to get info on the perps and give it to the new resident cop. "He will run it and contact you."

Now this is news to me. I can understand the trespassing to an extent, if only that I walked past the picnic table for a shot. Of course, its the same ol' story of the railroad saying you can't take pics when in reality you can.

Don't get me wrong either. The guy I talked to was extremely cool and said he didn't have a problem with me being there but orders are orders. He was friendly, talkative and even apologetic. But I just had to vent that CSX or at least the new CSX cop at Wyoming are full of crap.

[hobojim]

I wonder what CSX would do if I was to exercise my open carry rights in addition to my right to take photos from public land?

Would be interesting to see if they think their rules trump state law.

Morons

[Raildudes dad]

Go to "REGIS" GVMC on google, zoom in on Judd St and print a copy of the aerial photo's. Make copies and give one to the butt head that says you are trespassing. You almost have to have your front bumper on the tracks to be trespassing. There's lots of room to park in the PUBLIC highway right of way. Print out a copy or 3 of that photogaphers' rights thing mentioned in Trains Magazine also.

[J T]

Great...more silly paranoia in this country.

[AARR]

I like RDD idea. Go get them Pete!

Somebody posted here recently a video how a railfan defended himself by police who said he could not take pictures of Amtrak. It took hours but he kept his cool and wits about him.

[PAT.C]

I JUST SPOKE TO A CSX EMPLOYEE AT THEIR CENTRAL EMERGENCY DISPATCH CENTER.

HE SAID THAT IF YOU ARE CERTAIN THAT YOU ARE NOT TRESPASSING , BACK OFF THE DISPUTED PROPERTY AND ASK THE EMPLOYEE TO CONTACT THE CSX POLICE AND DISPATCH AN OFFICER.

THE EMPLOYEE WILL CALL 1 -800-232-0144 AND PRESS #1. AND BE IN IMMEDIATE CONTACT WITH THE CSX POLICE CENTER.
YOU CAN ALSO CALL AND TALK DIRECTLY WITH THE CSX POLICE DISPATCHER.

I DID AND HAD A VERY GOOD CONVERSATION AND WOULD RECOMMEND PUTTING THIS NUMBER IN MEMORY.

THIS IS NOT FOR FUN - THIS IS SERIOUS AND USE IT WITH CARE.

[sd70accsxt700]

That number is a joke, this is from a emplyee. Dont bother calling I have as a emplyee. Did not have the right dispatchers number in my phone to call the correct dispatcher for reporting a hot axle, and did not have my radio. After the second attempt at calling said bafoons, I just gave up and did not care if the train derailed from a burnt off axle. Heck I gave them directon of train, train symbol, engine number, subdivision, dispatcher, milepost, time, car number, and closest road to time of incident, TWICE and neither thime could they get the right person to notify the train, I know as I was listing in on the scanner. If they cant do the simple task of that what makes you think they can handel this properly.

[sd70accsxt700]

Oh and this is not a one time thing either. Any one rember the meet in Deshler, the night I tried to call in the 20 handbrakes on the scrap gons. Another glaring example of CSX's finest. NOT.

[hoborich]

Not surprising from CSX. That dopey CSX cop named Karcher told me the whole Delray area was railroad property, and I had to leave the area.
In my opinion, CSX cops are just the local version of Blackwater. They pretty much make up their own rules and do as they please. Another CSX cop named Ortiz pulled a gun on my friend Charlie at Delray a while back and made him delete his pics taken from public property, including pics taken the day before at another location.
Never had any problems from other rail cops, but CSX seems especially paranoid and agressive.

[hobojim]

Not surprising from CSX. That dopey CSX cop named Karcher told me the whole Delray area was railroad property, and I had to leave the area.
In my opinion, CSX cops are just the local version of Blackwater. They pretty much make up their own rules and do as they please. Another CSX cop named Ortiz pulled a gun on my friend Charlie at Delray a while back and made him delete his pics taken from public property, including pics taken the day before at another location.
Never had any problems from other rail cops, but CSX seems especially paranoid and agressive.

deleted

[azimmer]

In the city of Detroit, a very good place to get photographs of Amtrak (and other) trains is John Kronk avenue just east of Central street. At this location, which is essentially Livernois yard, the tracks run extremely close to John Kronk. For several years, I have parked my car on JK and waited, sometimes for a few hours, for a good opportunity.

A short while ago I did the same thing, and within minutes a CSX police vehicle pulled up behind me. I was briefly questioned. After this incident, I realized that things were now past the point of no return for railfans, and I have not returned to the area, or any other area, since. This new agressive stance has destroyed railfanning for me. I simply don't want to have to explain my actions each and every time I stand close to some tracks. I could choose to fight, but any antagonism is sure to cause more trouble than it is worth. I have better things that I want to do.

[Jochs]

What if the cop just decides to arrest you right on the spot....don't you forfeit any rights you have?

[justalurker66]

What if the cop just decides to arrest you right on the spot....don't you forfeit any rights you have?

Other than the hassle factor, being arrested might be the best outcome. Then there would be a solid record of the officer's actions.

Without the arrest there is just the hassle and personal property damage. Being run off property that isn't the railroad's or (worst case) being required to delete photos (personal property of the photographer) with no arrest doesn't give much of a chance to "fight back".

[sd70accsxt700]

HE SAID THAT IF YOU ARE CERTAIN THAT YOU ARE NOT TRESPASSING , BACK OFF THE DISPUTED PROPERTY AND ASK THE EMPLOYEE TO CONTACT THE CSX POLICE AND DISPATCH AN OFFICER.

THE EMPLOYEE WILL CALL 1 -800-232-0144 AND PRESS #1. AND BE IN IMMEDIATE CONTACT WITH THE CSX POLICE CENTER.
YOU CAN ALSO CALL AND TALK DIRECTLY WITH THE CSX POLICE DISPATCHER.

Um sure if you take out all the BS like I just did, the above quoted is what is left. Intresting read is it not. Lets see.

#1CSX Police Communications Center says..........If you know disputed area is PUBLIC PROPERTY, leave the area and ask CSX emplyee to call it in.

#2 Emplyee will call into PSCC and talk to a CSX officer who has never seen the area, or been to the area (this is the point I was making in my first tyrade), and ask him what to do, all with out you being able to hear other end of said conservation.

#3 You can also call and talk to said officer AFTER the CSX emplyee does. How do you think that conservation is going to go?


I can tell you right now the only real solution you have to the problem is carry a lawyer all the time with you or call the local police who will tell the CSX Cop he is full of POOP. Unfortunatly there is noting you can do about either the CSX emplyee or CSX Cop taking your licence plate, as it is in full vue.


Maybe our fall meet should be at Judd St and see exactly what he would do with 30 people there/

[hobojim]

What if the cop just decides to arrest you right on the spot....don't you forfeit any rights you have?

Judging from CSX prior actions, their position is that you have NO rights, constitutional, legal or otherwise, if they decide to take them away from you.

It was said in a previous thread a few months back that private police forces have jurisdiction only on the property of their employer. On public land they are just another citizen. Hence my statement that it is highly dangerous, legally and/or physically, for them to pull a gun on someone to try and scare them.

[Typhoon]

What if the cop just decides to arrest you right on the spot....don't you forfeit any rights you have?

Judging from CSX prior actions, their position is that you have NO rights, constitutional, legal or otherwise, if they decide to take them away from you.

It was said in a previous thread a few months back that private police forces have jurisdiction only on the property of their employer. On public land they are just another citizen. Hence my statement that it is highly dangerous, legally and/or physically, for them to pull a gun on someone to try and scare them.

and what was said on the previous thread was wrong.

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/maga ... e_id=32009


"When railroad police officers are in a state different from the one where they received their railroad police commissions, their police authority is the same as that of railroad officers commissioned under the laws of the state in which they are present.10 Furthermore, this police authority shall apply only on railroad property, except in two instances:


•A railroad police officer may pursue someone off railroad property if that person is suspected of violating the law on railroad property.
tespassing would be included in that.

•A railroad police officer may engage in off–railroad property law enforcement activities, including, without limitation, investigation and arrest, if permissible under state law"

Michigan laws:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(22zc0e550khp4mes1dvhfu45))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-462-377

"Every railroad police officer, who is appointed and commissioned as provided in this act, shall have, exercise, and possess, throughout the state, while in the discharge of his or her duties as a railroad police officer, the powers of sheriffs, marshals, constables, and municipal police officers except in the service of civil process. A railroad police officer shall enforce and compel obedience to the laws of this state and to the ordinances of the cities, villages, and townships of this state when engaged in the discharge of his or her duties as a railroad police officer for the company"

Please do some research before posting things that might get people in trouble.......

[hobojim]

Ooops, thanx for the correction , typhoon.

I somehow got railroad cops and private security guards mixed up. What I said applys to private security guards, not rr police.

Having said that, rr cops or any other cops, do not have the power to take away any rights that we have and are exercising lawfully. Ergo, the right to travel on public land, the right to take pictures and here in Michigan the right to open carry firearms. Maybe the last right mentioned might not be the wisest thing to do, but it is a right nonetheless.

If i felt like going thru the hassle, I might just tell them to arrest me, but they better make sure they have a legal case for which I will be prosecuted or I will sue them for false arrest.

[CSX_CO]

In the city of Detroit...and within minutes a CSX police vehicle pulled up behind me. I was briefly questioned.

I snipped out the rest to get the jist of what you were saying.

That's it? Questioned? Were you told to leave? If not, where is the problem? Oh...my...God. The police wanted to check on you and see what you were doing. Big deal. You make no mention of further 'harassment' by the police, so I assume they let you stay on the public street?

Practice Safe CSX

[CSX_CO]

Oh and this is not a one time thing either. Any one rember the meet in Deshler, the night I tried to call in the 20 handbrakes on the scrap gons. Another glaring example of CSX's finest. NOT.

You've gotten a different experience then mine. I was travelling down US 6 near Wellsboro one morning. Watched the gates go up on an EB train in the middle of the train. Called in the crossing, and within minutes the dispatcher was giving out 'stop and flag' orders.

Called in another crossing here in Indianapolis. I was just 'passing by' and didn't get the crossing ID number. Just gave the guy the street name, and he tracked it down. I didn't know the MP designation right off hand, as I'd never seen one given out on this particular industrial track. They got it reported correctly, despite my lack of information.

Practice Safe CSX

[azimmer]

If i felt like going thru the hassle, I might just tell them to arrest me, but they better make sure they have a legal case for which I will be prosecuted or I will sue them for false arrest.

That's brave talk, but have you considered the consequences?

The arresting officer will go home after his shift for a few beers, some TV, and whatever, while you will spend all night in a jail cell, with pissing drunks and screaming drug addicts, and hope that the judge the following morning will release you without bail.

Even if there is no conviction (and that may not even be decided in the same year), your arrest record may come back to haunt you later in life. Job loss, no credit, etc., etc.

Good luck with the law suit. Would you be able to afford an attorney? Some lawyers may accept the case based on a percentage of the damage award, but if the judge or jury rules against you, then you are stuck with the court costs. Whatever the situation, any law suit will take at least 2-3 years of time to plod through the courts.

Is all this worth it just to defend your personal honor at the railroad crossing?

I'll pass.