MQT Info

[Ribbon Rail]

That is actually a good question. We have the same problem on the Elk to a certain extent of our on call weekends. My regular reporting point is Grand Rapids, so anytime I get called to go work a grain train and report in Kalamazoo, I am supposed to by law get an hour of drive time to Kalamazoo, and an hour of drive time back, meaning I can only work for 10 hours. But they seem to think that this "everyone shows as working out of Kalamazoo, so sorry!" Key word being, "shows."

/sigh

Well, you’re half right. The drive back doesn’t count against your HOS, so you can work 11 hours, the drive back would be limbo time b/c you’re not performing service by deadheading. But if you’re working the Grand Rapids job 5x per week, it has been established as your regular reporting point.

I’ll look into this for you, and get a straight answer, and maybe some resolution. Even though I no longer reside in Michigan, I’ll see what I can do to help. Dare I ask, how long has this been going on? Shoot me a PM if you wish.

[Brakey]

Now would that count as limbo time if by deadheading I am driving myself in my POV?

Our safety/rules guy who does all of our tests says the 10 hour work, 1 hour each way travel time.

[CSX_CO]

FYI, shortlines can apply for a waiver to the FRA HOS Laws, provided the jobs work between 0600 and 1800, they can get the waiver to have 6 day a week assignments. Not saying MQT did this, but that is an option for the smaller carriers.

INRD is currently exploring the option of getting the waiver to establish 6 day a week assignments with their crews.

Practice Safe CSX

[Ribbon Rail]

Now would that count as limbo time if by deadheading I am driving myself in my POV?

Our safety/rules guy who does all of our tests says the 10 hour work, 1 hour each way travel time.

Brakey, if that’s how he wants to word it, that’s fine, at least it works to your advantage & it’s within the law. The company outright denying you a deadhead on the 6th day is just wrong. So far as I’ve understood it, the law of the land is that regardless whether you’re taxied or driving your personal auto, the drive to/from is not considered performing duty, so you can do so beyond the 12 hour mark. And the only reason the drive to is counted into your HOS is because it’s in excess of your normal commuting distance, which might affect your fatigue factor on the job.

It’s really no different if you worked off the Grand Rapids extra board, and you got called for the local in Holland. Class I or Class III, the rules are no different here.

The only exception, unrelated to this, would be using a company vehicle. When driving a company vehicle, you ARE performing service, and you must be to your point of tieup within your 12 hours, otherwise, any service over 12 hours must be voluntary (and who wants to work for free, right?).

CSX_CO, you’re right, I got a chance to read into that waiver thing. That’s a mess, glad they can’t do it to the big dogs (yet). Granted, it doesn’t have as much to do with their start time as it does the hours they work. For instance, if the company bids a job at 1159 M-Sa, if that crew works 12:02 to put them on the clock after midnight, they can not work the 6th start at all. I honestly wish the Fed would give a deeper look into some of these bigger Class III's and realize they don’t need to work their men 6 days per week in order to provide ample service, rather they just need to hire more people. The bigger the operation, all they need is to increase their manpower. Some people, especially those of us with enough seniority to hold a regular turn, are content with 5 days per week. I value my “weekends" off, even if I only have W-Th right now. Only smaller routes like that Adrian & Blissfield should benefit from the waiver, as I’m sure they probably have much of an extra board, or even a need for one.

[CSX_CO]

The bigger the operation, all they need is to increase their manpower. Some people, especially those of us with enough seniority to hold a regular turn, are content with 5 days per week. I value my “weekends" off, even if I only have W-Th right now. Only smaller routes like that Adrian & Blissfield should benefit from the waiver, as I’m sure they probably have much of an extra board, or even a need for one.

Starting to get far from the till...

Some outfits wouldn't be able to find someone to work for just one day a week. I saw an interesting piece in Railway Age about retired railroaders and the pension system. There is a valuable pool of talent, with extensive railroad knowledge, that would be a boon to small railroads. They'd bring their knowledge, and safe working habits, to the smaller carriers. The problem is that under Railroad Retirement, you cannot collect a pension if you're working for a railroad. Even one day a week. That's not to say they're not getting paid cash under the table, but open up that option to retired rails, and make it legal. One day a week wouldn't 'hurt' the Railroad Retirement, the smaller shippers would gain access to a larger pool of qualified applicants, and it would give retired railroaders a little bit extra compensation.

[i995impalass]

The same crew doesn't take the train every day....

Well, how exactly does that work out? There are specific rules in the Fed Register and those in the Hours of Service Act that say a crew must have a regular sign-up point. Now I know the MQT has had a number of visits from the Feds, which is also part of the reason I heard they sold out.

So, is everyone assigned the same schedule on a week-to-week basis? Or, is a crew expected to work wherever necessary between Baldwin, Ludington or Manistee? I can’t help but ask because I was involved in a legislative issue revolving the very misinterpretation of deadhead protections for employees. That being, if a crew lives in Baldwin, and works out of Baldwin 4 days of the week, but they have to go to Manistee to work on Day #5, it should be considered a service deadhead (of approximately 1 hour), unless they’re working that same rotation every week. Unless of course all crews are signing up at Baldwin at the beginning of their shift, and using a company vehicle to get to their power & train elsewhere, then the issue is moot.

Probably more politics than need be involved on a railfan forum, but it seems to be like someone running the show there is a little clueless or ignorant of these laws, based on what I’m reading.

Sold out because the Feds are always up here? No, perfect storm with the current market ect.. We do a schedule that is out a week or so in advance so you know where you’re working. Crews are given time off for rest and it's rare to have a sixth start, but it happens. Myself and the Muskegon RR'der get put into the rotation as conductors to help when people are on vacation, sick, ect.. Trainmasters as conductors you say? Yes, that's how we do things on the Marquette. My honest opinion, if more trainmasters did conductor work more often they would have a better dealing with the train-crews. Some might disagree, but how can you manage someone if you have no clue what they do out in the field?

The bigger the operation, all they need is to increase their manpower. Some people, especially those of us with enough seniority to hold a regular turn, are content with 5 days per week. I value my “weekends" off, even if I only have W-Th right now. Only smaller routes like that Adrian & Blissfield should benefit from the waiver, as I’m sure they probably have much of an extra board, or even a need for one.

Starting to get far from the till...

Some outfits wouldn't be able to find someone to work for just one day a week. I saw an interesting piece in Railway Age about retired railroaders and the pension system. There is a valuable pool of talent, with extensive railroad knowledge, that would be a boon to small railroads. They'd bring their knowledge, and safe working habits, to the smaller carriers. The problem is that under Railroad Retirement, you cannot collect a pension if you're working for a railroad. Even one day a week. That's not to say they're not getting paid cash under the table, but open up that option to retired rails, and make it legal. One day a week wouldn't 'hurt' the Railroad Retirement, the smaller shippers would gain access to a larger pool of qualified applicants, and it would give retired railroaders a little bit extra compensation.

We applied and one of the first things needed to be done for non-union railroads are the guys had to be asked if they wanted it or not. Most voted no so we did not take it further.

[Brakey]

Trainmasters as conductors you say? Yes, that's how we do things on the Marquette. My honest opinion, if more trainmasters did conductor work more often they would have a better dealing with the train-crews. Some might disagree, but how can you manage someone if you have no clue what they do out in the field?

You know you have to count all those hours towards your 276 as it is commingled service I hope.

Flash edit: By that I mean if you work as a conductor, say, March 11th, you will have to count all the rest of the time you have worked as a trainmaster before March 11th, and after March 11th, and that will count towards your 276 hours in one 30 day period.

I don't see why there wasn't a clause specifically for that, since you won't be a conductor as much as you are being a trainmaster.

[i995impalass]

Trainmasters as conductors you say? Yes, that's how we do things on the Marquette. My honest opinion, if more trainmasters did conductor work more often they would have a better dealing with the train-crews. Some might disagree, but how can you manage someone if you have no clue what they do out in the field?

You know you have to count all those hours towards your 276 as it is commingled service I hope.

Flash edit: By that I mean if you work as a conductor, say, March 11th, you will have to count all the rest of the time you have worked as a trainmaster before March 11th, and after March 11th, and that will count towards your 276 hours in one 30 day period.

I don't see why there wasn't a clause specifically for that, since you won't be a conductor as much as you are being a trainmaster.

Yup all figured.

[Ribbon Rail]

Trainmasters as conductors you say? Yes, that's how we do things on the Marquette. My honest opinion, if more trainmasters did conductor work more often they would have a better dealing with the train-crews. Some might disagree, but how can you manage someone if you have no clue what they do out in the field?

You know you have to count all those hours towards your 276 as it is commingled service I hope.

Flash edit: By that I mean if you work as a conductor, say, March 11th, you will have to count all the rest of the time you have worked as a trainmaster before March 11th, and after March 11th, and that will count towards your 276 hours in one 30 day period.

I don't see why there wasn't a clause specifically for that, since you won't be a conductor as much as you are being a trainmaster.

I rarely deal with that kind of thing, since it’s pretty well forbidden for a trainmaster to run trains around here unless we’re on strike (or a customer is on strike, as we honor their picket). But from what I was told it has little to do with what you work more as, but the fact that you’re working as a conductor at all. You could spend 5% of your month as a conductor, but as you said, it still counts towards your 276, and your duties as a conductor/trainmaster for any single day are also limited to 12 hours.

For a trainmaster to show up an hour earlier than his conductor, start doing paperwork, with the intent of working as the engineer that day, that conductor should be cutting himself off at the 11th hour, unless he’s certified to drag the train in himself. Only reason I mention this is that I’ve seen one short line we interchange with who has a trainmaster that will put in 14-15 hour days, even though he’s only helping the crew switch in the yard like a brakeman, he has subjected himself to the HOS.

[Saturnalia]

I don't want to derail the current, very informitave conversation, but:
How often do you have to inspect the mainline on the MQT?

[645]

Z151- 0700 Sunday to Friday
Turn- 1800 Sunday to Friday Baldwin to Manistee and Back
Ludington- 1100 Sunday to Friday Runs to Walhalla and back daily
Manistee- 0830 No Saturday or Thursday

Oxy is switched everyday Ludington works
PCA is still open, switched everyday Manistee works but Tuesday

I'm planning to railfan MQT on Sunday, May 6th with a friend from Chicago and wondering if the above schedule is still in effect or has been changed? The Baldwin to Manistee Turn uses Z151's power, correct? Track speed Baldwin to Grand Rapids is about 40 mph for freights? (Have only chased the MQT Santa Train in the past which makes many stops enroute.) Thanks in advance for any assistance with this!

[SD80MAC]

645, that info should still be correct.