New Grand Rapids Amtrak Station - Vern J Ehlers

[trnwatcher]

IMHO, the design team was and is incompetent

I've been saying all along that is a stupid place to put the transportation center. Shoehorning it along US131 makes no sense at all. No room for expansion if they'd ever want to add a GR-DET train, any sort of future metro GR light rail system could not use this station and parking is minimal at best. The "city" fathers who dreamed this plan up actually think that people use Amtrak to come to GR to see events downtown. Most people that patronize Amtrak are going OUT OF GR for other things not coming into town to see events at The Van-Andel, Dee-Vos Hall, etc. The trains schedule is set to get people to DT Chicago for the day not vice versa. I still say that whoever owned this property saw an opportunity to bilk the people of GR and the State of MI out of a bunch of money to get rid of a virtually worthless piece of land that their father probably bought for pennies on the dollar when US131 was being built back in the 50's and 60's.

[Proto48Patrick]

$3.8 from the Feds. I can't find an official funding chart but pretty sure it requires D-B wages.
snip

Thats what Im looking for. Thanks big guy

[Raildudes dad]

IMHO, the design team was and is incompetent

I've been saying all along that is a stupid place to put the transportation center. Shoehorning it along US131 makes no sense at all. No room for expansion if they'd ever want to add a GR-DET train, any sort of future metro GR light rail system could not use this station and parking is minimal at best. The "city" fathers who dreamed this plan up actually think that people use Amtrak to come to GR to see events downtown. Most people that patronize Amtrak are going OUT OF GR for other things not coming into town to see events at The Van-Andel, Dee-Vos Hall, etc. The trains schedule is set to get people to DT Chicago for the day not vice versa. I still say that whoever owned this property saw an opportunity to bilk the people of GR and the State of MI out of a bunch of money to get rid of a virtually worthless piece of land that their father probably bought for pennies on the dollar when US131 was being built back in the 50's and 60's.

City has owned the property for years. I have explained ths stuff to my elected officials / ITP Board members several times over the years. Letters with drawing's etc. Started when they first got the idea to put the tent where is. Bus terminal should be over on Bridge Street. Amtrak could have tied up in the siding (since removed) by the fire station. Pull thru for future N-S commuter service

All to no avail. Sent 2 Board members a critique of the proposed station track / switch location . No change as far as I know. But what do you expect when the Boss man is a bus driver

[J T]

So where is all the parking going to be? I don't recall there being a large enough space for a new parking lot able to fit dozens of cars.

[aadti]

Parking! you don't need any parking as everybody will be taking the bus down there. At least that's what the planners / City are thinking!

[Saturnalia]

So I was out chasing #370, and was at the Grand Rapids Station, and the engineer hopped out to say hi while the crew was helping everyone off. Neat guy. Couple of things we touched on during the conversation, but mostly the new station. First, even as a regularly scheduled engineer on 370/371, he has not a clue as to what exactly is going to be installed. Aside from the rumors, he doesn't know. You could say I'm not really surprised. Anyway, he is pretty sure that there will be a eastern runner, and obviously is in favor of an east leg so they don't waste so much time with the reverse move. He was hopeful when I told him the RN discussion previously noted in the thread, but neither of us are holding our breath. One thing about all the changes he knows for sure, and this is another thing he was hoping for, was CTC through Wyoming Yard. Well, no, that is not happening, based on what he was told. He did say that they should be pretty close to hoisting up the signals at Lamar soon based on all the ground work. Interesting to hear it from that perspective. But alas, everyone was off and it was time to bring them north, so we got no further.

I'm going to grab some popcorn...

[C&O6084]

I was in the area Tuesday night, so I checked out the new station area before it got dark, and then watched #370 come in.

Surprised how much has been done so far. Old parking area already torn out, and topsoil around the building/future parking already set aside. No grading work yet where the tracks go. Interesting that immediately SOuth of the location, the curved crossing of CEntury by the old Union Station Leads is clearly obvious (and quite bunpy). I wonder if it'll be easier to reach from the South via Hall Street; going by way of Wealthy & logan involve turns far sharper than 90 degrees that are also shared with city buses.

#370 was 25 minutes late. SOme little kids were jumping and shrieking at every sound, thinking it was te train-- favorite aunt arriving. Whrn the train (finally) arrived, they jumped on her while she was still on the Coach, scaring the living daylights out of teh conductor. Lots of laughs out of thyat. Loco was #76, F40 #406 was providing HEP. I really like the Phase 3 + ANniversary paint job.

[barnstormer]

IMHO, the design team was and is incompetent

I've been saying all along that is a stupid place to put the transportation center. Shoehorning it along US131 makes no sense at all. No room for expansion if they'd ever want to add a GR-DET train, any sort of future metro GR light rail system could not use this station and parking is minimal at best.

Funny you should say that, as there already is a plan to have additional service out of this depot. While listening to an Amtrak rep. give a talk about the planning & construction of the new depot (of which I have pics of the proposed design, btw), it was revealed that the intent is to have 2 tracks there. On the wish list for Amtrak officials and certain Michigan Legislative reps., is a 2nd train that will run from G.R. to Detroit. Either it will run through Lansing to Howell on Plymouth sub., thru Ann Arbor, and east; or run to Kalamazoo via the Grand Poo-Bah R.R. to meet the Amtrak line there (Yeah, right! ). The depot will have 1 track installed to start, and the 2nd will be added at a later time, to accommodate having to store 2 train sets.

There has also been talk (during the past 4-5 years) of developing a second train, run mid-day, from Chicago to G.R., between the morning & evening trains (P371-P370). Some Michigan Reps. would like to see Amtrak take advantage of the opportunity to develop more growth on the line to G.R., which has seen a rise in passenger traffic over the past decade. Yes, a great deal of it may be going to Chicago, but there is potential for developing more traffic to St. Joe, Holland, & G.R. from Chicago, as well. Too few cars & engines to get that dream started yet, though.

Yes, more room is needed for parking, but it's a much better location than where it's going now, eh?

Besides, we don't know what G.R. officials will do to help things down the road. Maybe as a result, they choose to create additional parking, and tie-ins with other projects later on (commuter rail, busses, etc.). Who knows, but I believe we're heading in the right direction, as long as we're talking about expanding Amtrak service in West Michigan.

-barny.

[Trainman223]

Does this mean the AMTK consist will no longer have to park it up at GRE, now that they are going to have their own spur?

[SD80MAC]

Yes.

[J T]

I can't wait to see the tagging as a result of their new overnight location.

[Trainman223]

I can't wait to see the tagging as a result of their new overnight location.

HA!

[Capt. Picard]

Actually, there are enough engines and single level cars to add a second train between Grand Rapids and Chicago. It would just take funding from MDOT and permission from the CSX to start this service.

[Racer]

While listening to an Amtrak rep. give a talk about the planning & construction of the new depot (of which I have pics of the proposed design, btw), it was revealed that the intent is to have 2 tracks there. On the wish list for Amtrak officials and certain Michigan Legislative reps., is a 2nd train that will run from G.R. to Detroit. Either it will run through Lansing to Howell on Plymouth sub., thru Ann Arbor, and east; or run to Kalamazoo via the Grand Poo-Bah R.R. to meet the Amtrak line there (Yeah, right! ).

The GR- Detroit route via Ann Arbor (IMHO) makes absolutely no sense at all. There is no connecting track in AA to the Michigan Line except for the old AA-PC interchange track which would require a reversing move, plus the GLC cannot accommodate Amtrak with the future WALLY trains at the same time without some signaling and track work. Plus, they would need a second Wye to bypass the interchange traffic at Ann Pere. If they are planning a connection to the Wolverine via AA that would probably not work either. With all that time and effort to make a connection, they can get to Detroit faster just following the CSX and use CP Lou to reconnect to the Michigan Line for Detroit's station, plus Plymouth could be a decent stop for Amtrak customers. The station is and platform are still here in town.

Having a stop in Howell and continuing east on the CSX would give a better reason for people to take the WALLY to make a connection to GR. Two Amtrak stops between both ends of the future WALLY route would make more sense, again, just my opinion.

[Trainman223]

What is "WALLY"?

[Ypsi]

Wally is a Commuter train that is in planing to run on the GLC and AA from Howell to Ann Arbor

[fmilhaupt]

What is "WALLY"?

That's the name for the Washtenaw-Livingston county commuter rail line that the mayor of Ann Arbor has been promoting. The idea is to have stations in Howell, near Chilson Road, and in Whitmore Lake, feeding into Ann Arbor. Of the two commuter rail projects for Ann Arbor that are on the table, WALLY is the one that faces the greatest challenges.

First, there is no agreement in place to get the trains to downtown Ann Arbor. The plan is to run nearly as far south as the Barton Drive crossing on the north side of Ann Arbor, then use connecting bus service to get to any place that someone might actually want to go in town. There are no major employers that are within walking distance of that location. However, with WATCO in the picture now, as opposed to the Ann Arbor Acquisition Corp., it's possible that a deal could be made to get the trains to downtown Ann Arbor.

Secondly, there isn't much evidence of demand for such a service, given that we're talking about 40mph track, at best, here. When the idea was first brought up, it was just before some major road construction was going to tie up US-23 between Ann Arbor and Brighton. That project has come and gone.

Unlike the proposed Ann Arbor-Detroit corridor, there's not the advantage of having decent morning and afternoon traffic both ways to help offset the costs of multiple train sets making round trips morning and evening.

The SEMCOG-supported MI-Train Ann Arbor-Detroit service has its own issues, but at least it would have a major employer on the line in Dearborn. Unfortunately, they are building a new depot along Michigan Avenue between Greenfield Village and Oakwood Blvd. as part of this plan-- the current Amtrak station that would be replaced is less than half a mile's walk from my desk, which would be very convenient for me.

Both projects still lack operational funding, too. That's a big problem for both of them.

[JStryker722]

I thought MI-Train was on-track to be ready to go next year?

[fmilhaupt]

I thought MI-Train was on-track to be ready to go next year?

We've been told "there will be demonstration runs to special events real soon, now and regular service next year" for the past several years.

Thankfully, nobody's holding their breath waiting for this to actually start.

[C&O6084]

Stopped by Wednesday evening, on my way to the GRMakers work session. A lot more grading work done, and there are some wood forms for various foundations. Trees overhanging the future lead track have been cut down but not hauled away.

I was going to suggest at the work session that an automated web cam be set up on the fourth floor facing the tracks, but the new location isn't near the station-- it's in the Steelcase #2 building, the huge building at tghe corner of Hall and Century, across the freeway from the big dark red "Union Station" building complex.