Person vs Amtrak

[OwlCaboose2853]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index ... _in_f.html

[J T]

It does "appear to be an intentional act on his part," Sullivan said.

An estimated 40 passengers were delayed on the tracks nearly three hours while Canton police performed a death investigation. Another roughly 100 passengers on a second train were also delayed.

So now the engineer has to live with this, and 140 people were inconvenienced for three hours because of this inconsiderate and selfish jerk.

[ConrailMan5]

Rough way to end a day for the engineer, and a rough week for MI line.

[Bulby]

It does "appear to be an intentional act on his part," Sullivan said.

An estimated 40 passengers were delayed on the tracks nearly three hours while Canton police performed a death investigation. Another roughly 100 passengers on a second train were also delayed.

So now the engineer has to live with this, and 140 people were inconvenienced for three hours because of this inconsiderate and selfish jerk.

That looks to be the story...

[rettop]

I have access to the real BBC in the UK; there was a program that dealt with the train service in Mumbai--you have seen pictures of their trains. They were interviewing an engineer who had worked for 30 years as an engineer. Asked about how many people he had hit--somewhere between 75 and 80 deaths over his period if employment. What happens when he hits a person--(interesting) stops the train , him and the conductor go out and remove the body off the tracks and then proceed to the next station and report it and the mile marker. The personal from the station go back to the scene and recover the body. The tracks have to be clear for other trains! Interesting cultural difference on the way we treat railroad accidents.

[Ypsi]

Honstly that is a very surprising story if true... Afaik most railroad policies are stop, engineer do not leave the cab until authorities arrive, and you get a relief crew if you need one (along with other formalities associated with a pedestrian strike).

Speaking of policies I was wondering about making the stop after hitting a person at speed like this, should the engineer put the train in emergency, or make a "controlled stop"? I can see reasons for both, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were rules different for railroads on the situation.. If you know you hit a person, and they are going to be a fatality (as in sure you could tell this was since it was probably at trackspeed), it would make sense to bring the train to a safe and controlled stop following all saftey and reporting procedures, rather then the putting the train into emergency and risking throwing passengers or conductors who were not expecting a heavy break/ emergency application. Obviously if the policy is to put the train into emergency you should do that, and I can also see if a new organization found out that the engineer didn't use emergency brakes they could do their best to turn that situation ugly.. Either way just looking for thoughts from others or the railroaders on here, I'll check my rule books tonight too, but the personal experiences (if people are even comfertable sharing them or have even had them) are good too.

[ns8401]

I hate to say this but these things seem to come in three's, so this is 2...

A really rough week for 352 specifically, but Amtrak seems to have its fair share of issues along the Michigan Line, sadly lots of these suicides.

[ConrailMan5]

I hate to say this but these things seem to come in three's, so this is 2...

A really rough week for 352 specifically, but Amtrak seems to have its fair share of issues along the Michigan Line, sadly lots of these suicides.

My best guess for that Chris, is predictability. Not to rationalize suicide, but it's an in the moment thing. If you are going to utilize a train to kill yourself, passenger trains are ideal. Show up around train time, and there's no time to get cold feet. This is opposed to hoping you can find a fast moving freight along one of the other various Michigan routes when you are in that mindset.

The MI line goes through more populated areas than the other Michigan amtrak routes, which is the other reason it might seem worse for the MI line.

[Notch 8]

Why even get a statement from the Crew ? Why keep a train for 3 hours ? Like they are going to charge someone ? I would not want to deal with such a mess. Not 10 minutes let alone 3 hours.. and then the People that have to pick Humpty Dumpty up !

[ns8401]

I hate to say this but these things seem to come in three's, so this is 2...

A really rough week for 352 specifically, but Amtrak seems to have its fair share of issues along the Michigan Line, sadly lots of these suicides.

My best guess for that Chris, is predictability. Not to rationalize suicide, but it's an in the moment thing. If you are going to utilize a train to kill yourself, passenger trains are ideal. Show up around train time, and there's no time to get cold feet. This is opposed to hoping you can find a fast moving freight along one of the other various Michigan routes when you are in that mindset.

The MI line goes through more populated areas than the other Michigan amtrak routes, which is the other reason it might seem worse for the MI line.

I agree about the predictability, and I suppose because it hauls people that makes it that much more of a news item. Every wreck with an Amtrak train also brings an account, I'm not sure the same applies for freights.

[MQT1223]

This reminds me of an incident back in Holly in '09 I think. Guy got into a domestic dispute with his girlfriend and stole her truck, and then went through the Oakland St. Crossing only to take out a gate and miss the train. Goes another 2 miles onto Fish Lake Rd. and drives around traffic to hit the train between the 8 and 9th last cars on the train. Engine compartment was shoved into the cab of the truck and he died on impact. My dad knew him, and he was a railbuff as well. Tragic... I can't imagine the shock of the engineer, knowing he cut a guy down and there was nothing he could do to stop or prevent it.

[ConrailMan5]

I hate to say this but these things seem to come in three's, so this is 2...

A really rough week for 352 specifically, but Amtrak seems to have its fair share of issues along the Michigan Line, sadly lots of these suicides.

My best guess for that Chris, is predictability. Not to rationalize suicide, but it's an in the moment thing. If you are going to utilize a train to kill yourself, passenger trains are ideal. Show up around train time, and there's no time to get cold feet. This is opposed to hoping you can find a fast moving freight along one of the other various Michigan routes when you are in that mindset.

The MI line goes through more populated areas than the other Michigan amtrak routes, which is the other reason it might seem worse for the MI line.

I agree about the predictability, and I suppose because it hauls people that makes it that much more of a news item. Every wreck with an Amtrak train also brings an account, I'm not sure the same applies for freights.

I was referring more to the population density of SE Michigan. More density = more suicides at least in theory

And yes you are correct about amtrak and news. 38E hit a person commuting suicide in Ypsilanti's Depot Town last year. Even during the bar rush with all the witnesses, I barely saw a word printed about it.

[NYCMan]

How do they know it was a suicide? After all, someone could have pushed the guy out in front of the train. Or, he could have been a railfan getting ready to take a picture of the train and he accidentally slipped in front of the train. Or...

One would think that someone hell-bent on suicide would want to go painlessly. Getting whacked by a moving train has got to hurt!

But, it also seems that the Michigan Line sure has had its share of deadly incidents in recent years.

As far as the train delay (which I believe I read was over 3 hours), was this due to local police "investigating" or waiting for a re-crew? If it was local police, what was needed was for Amtrak or NS Police to take control of the investigation, since the railroad police have primary jurisdiction on railroad property.

[ConrailMan5]

It does "appear to be an intentional act on his part," Sullivan said

How do they know it was a suicide?.

In the article it states he walked out of a wooded area. Nothing certain, but they stated that it appeared to be intentional in the article, so that's what we have to go off. The track in that area is straight with a Wide ROW and not very much wooded encroachment. Anyone crossing the tracks (assuming they are smart and look both ways) would have good visibility of a train in both directions. Given that it was night, a headlight would be easily visible.

That being said, there are stupid people in the world. If so, Darwinian logic says this guy was bound to get eliminated from the gene pool one way or another.

[ConrailMan5]

As far as the train delay (which I believe I read was over 3 hours), was this due to local police "investigating" or waiting for a re-crew? If it was local police, what was needed was for Amtrak or NS Police to take control of the investigation, since the railroad police have primary jurisdiction on railroad property.

At least 150 passengers in two trains were delayed on the tracks nearly three hours while Canton police performed a death investigation. Another roughly 100 passengers on a second train were also delayed.

Agsin, in the article it states the delay was so that the police could do their investigation. I'm sure crewing time also played a factor as they are based in Pontiac on this end of the line. It is MDOT property, and I believe Amtrak police have taken over jurisdiction Porter-Dearborn. However, they are based in Battle Creek. Either way you have a sizeable delay. I'm not in law enforcement, but I don't see how either NS, Amtrak, or LEO's doing the investigation makes a difference in the delay.

[J T]

One would think that someone hell-bent on suicide would want to go painlessly. Getting whacked by a moving train has got to hurt!

Right, because no one has ever committed suicide by stepping in front of a train.

[firemedic54]

This reminds me of an incident back in Holly in '09 I think. Guy got into a domestic dispute with his girlfriend and stole her truck, and then went through the Oakland St. Crossing only to take out a gate and miss the train. Goes another 2 miles onto Fish Lake Rd. and drives around traffic to hit the train between the 8 and 9th last cars on the train. Engine compartment was shoved into the cab of the truck and he died on impact. My dad knew him, and he was a railbuff as well. Tragic... I can't imagine the shock of the engineer, knowing he cut a guy down and there was nothing he could do to stop or prevent it.

The fire department I'm on responded to this incident. I was in Toronto for a firefighter hockey tournament but I remember talking to the guys when we returned and seeing the photos. Pretty bad.

[MQT1223]

This reminds me of an incident back in Holly in '09 I think. Guy got into a domestic dispute with his girlfriend and stole her truck, and then went through the Oakland St. Crossing only to take out a gate and miss the train. Goes another 2 miles onto Fish Lake Rd. and drives around traffic to hit the train between the 8 and 9th last cars on the train. Engine compartment was shoved into the cab of the truck and he died on impact. My dad knew him, and he was a railbuff as well. Tragic... I can't imagine the shock of the engineer, knowing he cut a guy down and there was nothing he could do to stop or prevent it.

The fire department I'm on responded to this incident. I was in Toronto for a firefighter hockey tournament but I remember talking to the guys when we returned and seeing the photos. Pretty bad.

My Grandma and Great Grandma lived in the big white house between the tracks and the river. They both remember hearing a very big bang when the truck hit, especially my grandma who was outside with the dog. Crossing was closed for sometime during the investigation. My dad like I said knew him. He remembers talking to him when certain things came to town via rail. He was always on top of the stuff. Like he knew when the Chessie Steam Special came to town back in 81 or 82. I showed my dad pictures of 2101 on the Chessie tracks at the Depot and he could remember the guy blabbing about it. I believe the 2101 or the 614 is the last time steam of any kind visit Holly so the picture my buddy found for me I keep very close. I always dreamed of seeing steam go past that depot or through downtown. Eliminate the modern cars and you could easily go back to any decade you wanted with the old and historic buildings downtown.