MDOT and the Wally cars

[Super Chief]

Todays Detroit Free Press has a front page article on the background of the Metra cars and the length of time they have not been used since refurbishment. Other than special moves and the NPE their basically waiting for someone to start a commuter service. The jest of the article is why was there a rush to finish them for what?

[AARR]

I read it too, SC. Lots of money put into a program that has gone nowhere. But GLC has profited from it with storage fees and refurbishing the double deck passenger cars.

[Super Chief]

Don, maybe the casino in Traverse City could have a Valentines special with chocolates and wine. I see in Trains mag that Metra bought back some equipment after they sold it. MDOT might as well start calling other enities and sell them, rent them or lease? Since theres 23 cars re-habed maybe a Michigan Orient Express. I see the governor is going to get a report. I wonder since the NPE seats were $35 and they were used on all trips what started as 2 cars that were offered to SRI was increased to 4 cars for every trip how the group made out? If they didn't have to pay rent for them that had to help their bottom line too. I'm just not sure how many seats are in them since the make over?

[BerkshireKid]

Trust me... GLC aint profiting from them like you think they are....

[MQT1223]

Trust me... GLC aint profiting from them like you think they are....

Wasn't most of the profit that GLC is suppose to get come from actually RUNNING the trains and have people PAYING for TICKETS to commute?

[BerkshireKid]

Read into the statement.... "Trust me... GLC aint profiting from them like you think they are...."

Have you ever paid attention to the cars and their reporting marks? Do they have GLC on them? No. Do they have FRYX on them? Yes....

[Ypsi]

Wasn't most of the profit that GLC is suppose to get come from actually RUNNING the trains and have people PAYING for TICKETS to commute?

what Berkshire said, GLC will not be running the trains, MDOT/ SEMCOG will be.. and even then you won't make money moving people....... I will say this whole time I believe we have seen GLC become more visible within the state of Michigan in terms of PR, displays in Ypsi, Ann Arbor, Toledo, Dearborn, Howell, Train fest ect.

[Steve B]

I think it's irrelevant whether GLC is making a ton of money or just a little on this scheme. We can safely assume that, since it's a private business, GLC is not doing this for charity. That's fine. What we should take issue with is the state's confused planning. $12 million might not be a lot in the grand scheme of things, but we don't need to give more ammo to the anti-passenger rail crowd.

[BerkshireKid]

GLC is in the running to be the operator and I think it's a pretty good conclusion that they'll run it on their own railroad.
As normal people post without reading.... Are GLC's reporting marks on the cars? NO Are FRYX reporting marks on the cars? YES. Please tell me again how GLC is profiting from these cars sitting around.

[Steve B]

BerkshireKid, a quick Google search would have informed you that "FRYX" are the marks for Federated Railcar, Inc. Federated's Railcar's parent, Federated Capital, owns GLC. This article explains it: http://www.progressiverailroading.com/i ... ice--39646

[BerkshireKid]

So the company that OWNS GLC is profiting... Not GLC? HMMMMMM NO KIDDING!!!!! So you're telling me GLC isn't making money on the deal but Federated is? So just like I posted.
All Federated is is an investment group trying to build a portfolio of "money makers" exactly like Fortress was to RailAmerica. You really think all that money goes to GLC to buy those SD70ACe's they have? Or do you think it goes to cover losses elsewhere? Hmmmmm I'm guessing #2 and yes i'm very familiar with the happenings...

[Steve B]

I'm not going to try to split hairs on this issue. Bottom line is that "the railroad," whether we're talking about GLC or Federated, is making money or they wouldn't be doing this.

That's all I'm going to say about it. The anger that's coming from you is a key reason that I average only about 9 posts a year on this forum.

[BerkshireKid]

There's no splitting hairs.... Federated is profiting from the cars sitting not GLC. Not that hard to comprehend... Is it?
As for anger from me... Yeah no anger from me over here .Just trying to state the actual facts and if you consider that anger well I guess we won't miss your 9 posts a year. BTW... You've used 3 on this topic alone. Please use the other 6 sparingly through out the year.

[TC Man]

There's no splitting hairs.... Federated is profiting from the cars sitting not GLC. Not that hard to comprehend... Is it?
As for anger from me... Yeah no anger from me over here .Just trying to state the actual facts and if you consider that anger well I guess we won't miss your 9 posts a year. BTW... You've used 3 on this topic alone. Please use the other 6 sparingly through out the year.

sorry dude, but while I know you have ties to the GLC, those cars are sitting GLC's yard, and YES, GLC is charging MDOT for those cars being stored there. That's perfectly fine, as they should. So, GLC AND Federated are making money on these. And for GLC to say those trashed ready-for-the-scrapper cars in Cadillac (that were in Grawn for a couple years) are worth $1M each is hogwash. Yes, GLC told the media they are worth that after they were vandalized. They are not worth much more than scrap value now. Federated paid next to nothing for them to Metra and they are in much worse condition now. I'm not referring to the rebuild cars on Owosso, of course.

And for you all not from TC- the Turtle Creek Casino in Williamsburg is hardly big enough to support any kind of tourist train. I was there for the first time in 3 years Friday night for my charitable contribution (aka $20 lost in the slots), the place was half empty at 9pm on a Friday night.

[BerkshireKid]

Just like why Dok No left and I understand it more now. Railfans telling people in the know how and why things are. Just keep thinking GLC is profiting from those cars being stored while engines are down and parts cant be bought and crews and shop guys go without the necessary things for day to day operations and while those nice new bright shiny blue and white SD70ACe's haul 2 mile long passenger trains from AA to TC....

[NYCMan]

I'll bet the folks at MDOT and the folks at GLC/FRYX are glad that the Detroit Free Press did not get wind of the Talgo deal and the inner workings on all of that. My olfactory senses tell me that when government officials and private entities appear to have "too cozy" an arrangement, something usually stinks. Me thinks the Detroit Free Press has only peeled the first layer of the onion. There are a few more layers to go before the real stink begins to get out.

[TC Man]

Just like why Dok No left and I understand it more now. Railfans telling people in the know how and why things are. Just keep thinking GLC is profiting from those cars being stored while engines are down and parts cant be bought and crews and shop guys go without the necessary things for day to day operations and while those nice new bright shiny blue and white SD70ACe's haul 2 mile long passenger trains from AA to TC....

First, I'm far from a typical "railfan"- I could care less to watch endless trains- I am more into the business ends of things- and keeping an eye on the TC end of MDOT/GLC (and why on earth my taxes are paying to keep this in service). I don't know an SD70whatever from a GP40whatever, honestly. But, I'm pretty sure there will never be a TC to Ann Arbor passenger train (occasional tourist train, sure- regular service passenger train- never). I never said GLC is getting rich on those cars in their shop tracks- but they are not letting them sit there for free. I totally agree that GLC likely put the rebuilding of those cars on the front burner and everything else (including maintaining their own locos and freight cars) on the back burner to get the contract. My only point is that GLC is making some money storing those cars there. And yes, I do know a couple GLC employees fairly well. I bet I even know you, Berkshirekid- or your dad (if you are who I think you are). We're in the same boat, please re-read my first post if you were thinking I'm saying GLC is getting rich on those cars.

[NYCMan]

TCMan has some vert valid points. First, realize that GLC does not own their railroad, the State of Michigan owns the tracks. GLC has a sweet contract with the State to operate those tracks. That sweet contract guarantees GLC a profit, since GLC gets to charge all their expenses of operation, and a profit, against the State. Unlike a "normal railroad", GLC is privy to lots of special "paybacks" from MDOT that other railroads do NOT get. The State pays for all of GLC's track maintenance. The State pays for all of GLC's signal maintenance. The State pays for all of GLC's crossing maintenance. For GLC, their management can sleep easy at night not having to worry about making a profit, since the State/MDOT has guaranteed them a profit. One must wonder the "why" behind GLC keeping track all the way to Traverse City maintained and operating when that track has not seen trains in some time. The answer is because GLC makes money from the State/MDOT for doing so. GLC puts their track department up their doing the work, and State/MDOT pays GLC to do so plus a specified profit. The more track maintenance that GLC does, the more money that GLC makes. So, what is the big deal? The State/MDOT can afford it, all their have to do is just tax Joe Taxpayer a few sheckles more. Joe Taxpayer has no say in the matter, after all, the folks in State Government know more than Joe Taxpayer does. (Hmmm, in this case, State Government sounds like a railfan!)

[PatAzo]

Railfans telling people in the know how and why things are.

Are the Free Press numbers correct? $1.1M per year to lease 23 cars that, with refurbishment, have cost $500K each?

[TC Man]

...One must wonder the "why" behind GLC keeping track all the way to Traverse City maintained and operating when that track has not seen trains in some time. The answer is because GLC makes money from the State/MDOT for doing so.

Just to clarify, GLC does operate through Traverse City to Bates (Williamsburg) about 1-2 times per week for Amerihart lumber yard. There is no (and no potential really) traffic on the line from Traverse City to Grawn. If GLC actually had to pay to maintain the line to TC and depend on what traffic they have there for income, a smart manager would scrap the line to TC and serve the lumber yard from a transload in Kalkaska, about 20 road miles straight down M-72 from the lumber yard. they could then abandon at least TC to Williamsburg (10 miles) and railbank Walton to TC (if they really wanted to just in case of some future potential such as Tyson Foods (which just bought the Hillshire Brands plant in TC- which was Sara Lee before Hillshire). Or scrap the entire TC lines- 45 miles of track (25 from Walton to TC, 10 from TC to Williamsburg, and 10 from TC to Grawn). Salvage rail, some good ties and ballast, and all the crossing protection for use elsewhere on the system.

However, in the case, MDOT owns and pays for everything- so GLC is happy to operate a money-losing line because THEY are making money on the line through MDOT (not much, but they are- otherwise they would not be in business).

And of course I realize GLC does own outright some segments on the south end.