The 2007 Michigan Central

[Ben Higdon]

I wouldn't be surprised if some state or federal transportation funding was allocated to rebuild the connector in Ann Arbor. Also NS would need to sell their rights to MI Line traffic without stipulating the traffic must move via Wayne or Elkhart (not sure if they could do that in this situation).
If that were the case, why would a combined Watco system not route traffic from the west side of the state via Toledo (assuming that suited the traffic routing)? Access to competitive rates, possible overall transit time savings, slightly longer haul. Grand Elk appears to be generating new business by doing something NS was not...presumably making an effort to appeal to marginally profitable customers that are otherwise not in the game when their services is provided by a class 1. There is potential for decision making there which is otherwise not present in the standard class 1 model of incurring the least possible service expenses without driving away the most lucrative traffic.

[NSSD70ACe]

What's the rumor, that NS is interested in the ex MC lines?

With all the traffic that the Grand Elk has brought back? Hardly surprising if that is the case.

Also, assuming the Elk and the AA came together for one system, I assume they would interchange in BC with CN. What would happened to Kigore Yard? CN serves very few customers in the area (Fabri-Kal, Arvco Containers, and a place that gets tank cars that's off of Miller come to mind). Would the Elk interchange there be the only thing affected or would it be more than just the interchange lost?

And Ben, I agree. With the fact that the Elk is seemingly picking up more customers every few months, it is a very real possibility that a new deal might emerge that creates this system.

(If I understood that right)

[Saturnalia]

The shortlines in Michigan right now are doing a great job of "stealing" traffic off the Class Is - by both attracting existing rail users and signing on new ones. They're offering better service and competitive rates. Often times the Class Is want too much and offer too little to make it happen. The shortlines are having a ball. And that's pretty much okay...the big boys want the long haul and the shortlines want switching.

[trnwatcher]

The shortlines in Michigan right now are doing a great job of "stealing" traffic off the Class Is

The shortlines eat the expense of the switch crew and the Class I's reap the profits. Not sure that being a shortline is all that profitable. They need the additional "new" business to lower the cost per call of each crew. The more cars they switch the less that call costs the RR. It's been the nature of the business for 30 some years now.

[PatAzo]

The shortlines in Michigan right now are doing a great job of "stealing" traffic off the Class Is - by both attracting existing rail users and signing on new ones. They're offering better service and competitive rates. Often times the Class Is want too much and offer too little to make it happen. The shortlines are having a ball. And that's pretty much okay...the big boys want the long haul and the shortlines want switching.

How do the shorelines "steal" traffic off the class one's?

[AARR]

Short Lines get business on their lines that would otherwise locate on a Class 1 or would ship by truck. They do this through a combination of better service and/or lower prices.

The shortlines in Michigan right now are doing a great job of "stealing" traffic off the Class Is - by both attracting existing rail users and signing on new ones. They're offering better service and competitive rates. Often times the Class Is want too much and offer too little to make it happen. The shortlines are having a ball. And that's pretty much okay...the big boys want the long haul and the shortlines want switching.

How do the shorelines "steal" traffic off the class one's?

[M.D.Bentley]

Conrail would do the switching and the parents would provide the road crews ( same as now ). Amtrak and you paid for the Mi line upgrades, Not the NS . That's why they let fall apart ( slow orders/delays/etc ). Conrail STILL makes BILLIONS for it's parents ( current stock holder ). On the east coast Conrail expanded their trackage ( the Chemical Coast now the Garden something or other ) a few years ago and everything is still running quite smooth. So can it be done, sure. Hell, they would even have to hire more people. There are a lot of "irons in the fire" right now. If the expansions happen as planed, who knows where it will lead...........................But then again this is just a RUMOR.........................

[ConrailMan5]

[quote="M.D.Bentley]...........................But then again this is just a RUMOR.........................[/quote]

So.... when should I make the press release

In this hypothetical conrail situation then, all of the locals (your b series jobs) would be taken over as well as yard jobs? I am just not seeing the operational gain here because as it sits nothing would change but the name. Everything on the MI line is a local/yard job (including b33 and excluding my 38/39E.) so what does switching to conrail do for NS?

[j32885]

You people might want to check this page and chart. It might be of interest to look at considering WHO Really Owns The Tracks...

MDOT-Michigan State Owned Rail Lines
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-1 ... --,00.html

MDOT-Michigan State Owned Rail Lines Map
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/ ... 0121_7.pdf

In any case involving the Michigan Line:

- MDOT/State Of Michigan Owns Most Of The Trackage
- Amtrak (Intercity Passenger) & Norfolk Southern (Freight) Are "The Current" Operators

In order for WATCO to operate trains on the MICH Line and connect to the AA Line, MDOT/State Of Michigan would need to make the following changes:

Plan A: "New Freight Operator" basically giving WATCO Full Control/Rail Access to the MI Line. WATCO acquiring Rumley & Hinman Yards (Battle Creek) and JAX Yard (Jackson). Interchanging freights could happen at either Jackson or Wayne. Norfolk Southern would still operate Wayne Yard - Townline Jct. section of MI Line which is still under Conrail S.A. control/authority.

Plan B: "Track Rights" basically limiting WATCO and giving access to just enough get their trains to and from the AA Line. This is the current the setup that WATCO has with NS about leasing the Ex-GR&I (PRR) Line. Norfolk Southern would still operate local freights/manage yards in both B.C. & JAX.

Again, IF Any Of This Were To Transpire, It would open up business opportunity for shippers wanting to get goods from GR -> TOL or GR <- TOL . WATCO would give CSX a run for it's $$$, and take away business from them. Sure the WATCO MICH-AA Route might not be as direct as the CSX PM Route, but as it stands it would give shippers another choice. CSX is still uncertain what to do with their former PM Lines.

I'm sure the RR Unions with CRSA (NS) will fight tooth and nail to prevent such changes. They were very resistance about WATCO getting the GR&I Line from NS. I'm all for the RR Unions, but people jobs are always at stake here. I'm not sure how many people made the switch when K-Zoo Yard went from CR->NS->WATCO.

You also got another player here could be affected by any changes to the Michigan Line, and that is ADBF's JAIL. The JAIL Line depends heavily on interchange at Jackson Yard. ADBF might less willing be to do business with WATCO, than it currently does with NS at the moment.

The last final factor is still in play the MDOT/SEMCOG MiTrain AA-DET Commuter Rail Service which still DOES NOT HAVE AN OPERATOR! With the Political Red Tape & Michigan Line Rehabbing just keeps delaying this project. MDOT stated last they are going to stop making payments to the commuter cars sitting in Owosso @ GLC Shops. MiTrain won't be ready for another 4-5 years.

[CAT345C]

There's one great quality comments on this thread, it's nice to see that with all the bs that's been going on here lately!

[ConrailMan5]

I don't think ownership of the lines was really in question. Mostly the how's of operation. But anyway, as I understand it Michigan owns the mainline (KZOO-Wayne) and NS still owns the major yards (at this point only BC, JXN, Willor Run, and Wayne) yards. So if watco got the opperating contract they would have to either purchase those yards outright from NS or do something else to serve customers in the areas where MDOT does not own the tracks.

I completely forgot that GDLK goes north from KZOO. That really does change things as far as inclusion of the AA is concerned. My mistake.