Saginaw Area Questions

[chapmaja]

I was at SVSU on Sunday for work. On the way out of town I did a few minutes of exploring.

First, I headed down towards the area "under the bridge". Just SW of the Zilwaukee bridge (Westerveldt Rd), I witnessed two railroad lines, a short distance apart. One of them seems to go to the customer on the east side of the bridge, while the other looks to be the mainline going towards Bay City. Is this correct. I followed the line south and witnessed a single covered hopper on the "interchange" between the two lines. These two lines run parallel for while heading south. From the eastern track, Google maps shows several tracks going towards the Saginaw River. but does not list a customer. Does this customer (located on Seaway Dr) still get rail service.

Heading a bit farther south, it appears a new connection was built connecting these two lines, and an older section of the eastern line was removed. Both lines would have crossed Carrolton Rd near Sherman. The eastern (removed track) continues a short distance before it curves to what appears to be a connection with the western (mainline). Why was this short section removed and a new connection built. Was it to remove the Carrolton Rd crossing from service? I can't think of another explanation for this.

Continuing west (as the lines curve from southward to westward), the mainline is north of what appears to be the old ROW for the "eastern" line. There is a small "two track" yard on this section of track. The yard is located between the property listed as Michigan Sugar and the unlisted but large complex near the river which looks like it could be a sugar loading / processing facility (that gets rail as well).

The tracks into Michigan sugar fan out but appear unused in some time. Does Michigan Sugar still operate this plant or has it been closed down?

Farther down the tracks and around the curve (near Stoker) is the connection between the "mainline" and the spur going to possible loading property by the river. At the end of this line the tracks fan out along both sides of the loading / processing facility.

Just south of here Carrolton Rd crosses over the tracks and their is a diamond. This track appears to be the line going to the Saginaw Yard. Am I correct that this is the ex-CSX line to Midland?

Just south of the diamond there is a wye track coming from the CSX to the other line (is this HESR to Bay City?) This wye track connects to what I think is the HESR track, but there is also a section going farther south, possibly to a scrap facility. Does the SBS serve a scrap yard in Saginaw south of 675?

The mainline track continues from the diamond south and eventually runs parallel to Michigan Ave. There appears to be a small yard maybe 4 tracks wide. near the south end of the yard two wyes head off to the east and form one track that weaves its way past the warehouse and south of Saginaw High School. Is this the HESR track to Flushing and Durand?

Where does the track heading south from this little yard go? I see it goes past the railway museum? Is this the line out to Paines? If it is, doesn't SBS have trackage rights to Paines via the HESR? Is that one reason for the wye connection?

Now back to the Saginaw SBS Yard? I know SBS is connected to the LSRC? How do they connect Bay City and Saginaw though. I see three tracks coming out of the yard in Saginaw. The first goes east and would appear to be the HESR's connect between the thumb and Saginaw and points south. Does HESR have any use of the Saginaw Yard or is that all SBS use? It appears the northern leg of the triangle would be used by the HESR from the thumb?

The second line goes west of the yard. This is the line I think goes to Midland?

The third line goes south from the yard and is the line to Flint.

What I don't see is a line connecting Bay City to Saginaw for CSX. Does this line split off the Midland Line somewhere I just don't see?

Also, where does the line by Nexteer go? It appears to head ESE from Saginaw? Does this go to Vassar?

I'm also confused by the lines running east from Saginaw. One appears ripped out? One is the Nexteer one (which goes where?) and the next is the one east from the SBS yard? The next I see is the line under the bridge? (plus the spur to the plant on the bridge).

Am I missing a line?

Finally, what customers are still located in the Saginaw area. It seems like a lot of cars for an area I don't seem to remember having a lot of current customers. Are most of the cars in the yards for local customers or are they from other areas (Midland / Bay City) and just waiting to head south?

[BamaSubdivision94]

I was at SVSU on Sunday for work. On the way out of town I did a few minutes of exploring.

First, I headed down towards the area "under the bridge". Just SW of the Zilwaukee bridge (Westerveldt Rd), I witnessed two railroad lines, a short distance apart. One of them seems to go to the customer on the east side of the bridge, while the other looks to be the mainline going towards Bay City. Is this correct. I followed the line south and witnessed a single covered hopper on the "interchange" between the two lines. These two lines run parallel for while heading south. From the eastern track, Google maps shows several tracks going towards the Saginaw River. but does not list a customer. Does this customer (located on Seaway Dr) still get rail service.

Heading a bit farther south, it appears a new connection was built connecting these two lines, and an older section of the eastern line was removed. Both lines would have crossed Carrolton Rd near Sherman. The eastern (removed track) continues a short distance before it curves to what appears to be a connection with the western (mainline). Why was this short section removed and a new connection built. Was it to remove the Carrolton Rd crossing from service? I can't think of another explanation for this.

Continuing west (as the lines curve from southward to westward), the mainline is north of what appears to be the old ROW for the "eastern" line. There is a small "two track" yard on this section of track. The yard is located between the property listed as Michigan Sugar and the unlisted but large complex near the river which looks like it could be a sugar loading / processing facility (that gets rail as well).

The tracks into Michigan sugar fan out but appear unused in some time. Does Michigan Sugar still operate this plant or has it been closed down?

Farther down the tracks and around the curve (near Stoker) is the connection between the "mainline" and the spur going to possible loading property by the river. At the end of this line the tracks fan out along both sides of the loading / processing facility.

Just south of here Carrolton Rd crosses over the tracks and their is a diamond. This track appears to be the line going to the Saginaw Yard. Am I correct that this is the ex-CSX line to Midland?

Just south of the diamond there is a wye track coming from the CSX to the other line (is this HESR to Bay City?) This wye track connects to what I think is the HESR track, but there is also a section going farther south, possibly to a scrap facility. Does the SBS serve a scrap yard in Saginaw south of 675?

The mainline track continues from the diamond south and eventually runs parallel to Michigan Ave. There appears to be a small yard maybe 4 tracks wide. near the south end of the yard two wyes head off to the east and form one track that weaves its way past the warehouse and south of Saginaw High School. Is this the HESR track to Flushing and Durand?

Where does the track heading south from this little yard go? I see it goes past the railway museum? Is this the line out to Paines? If it is, doesn't SBS have trackage rights to Paines via the HESR? Is that one reason for the wye connection?

Now back to the Saginaw SBS Yard? I know SBS is connected to the LSRC? How do they connect Bay City and Saginaw though. I see three tracks coming out of the yard in Saginaw. The first goes east and would appear to be the HESR's connect between the thumb and Saginaw and points south. Does HESR have any use of the Saginaw Yard or is that all SBS use? It appears the northern leg of the triangle would be used by the HESR from the thumb?

The second line goes west of the yard. This is the line I think goes to Midland?

The third line goes south from the yard and is the line to Flint.

What I don't see is a line connecting Bay City to Saginaw for CSX. Does this line split off the Midland Line somewhere I just don't see?

Also, where does the line by Nexteer go? It appears to head ESE from Saginaw? Does this go to Vassar?

I'm also confused by the lines running east from Saginaw. One appears ripped out? One is the Nexteer one (which goes where?) and the next is the one east from the SBS yard? The next I see is the line under the bridge? (plus the spur to the plant on the bridge).

Am I missing a line?

Finally, what customers are still located in the Saginaw area. It seems like a lot of cars for an area I don't seem to remember having a lot of current customers. Are most of the cars in the yards for local customers or are they from other areas (Midland / Bay City) and just waiting to head south?

To start off, LSRC is SBS. The latter was a subsidiary of the former from 2005 when it acquired CSX's property north of Mt. Morris to 2012 when LSRC phased out the SBS name. SBS's existence was apparently for accounting purposes. Now onto the main event!

Yes. This area is known as Mershon Junction where at one time the C&O Ludington Sub crossed the GTW Saginaw Sub, NYC's line to Bay City and the C&O's own industrial spur which was used to service industries in Carrollton (the North Shore Branch, I think it was called). Most of the Ludington Sub was torn up in the late 80's by CSX and now terminates at Dean Yard at Midland's Dow Chemical; from Midland to Clare, the old ROW is now the Pere Marquette Rail Trail. Just west of Clare to Baldwin, the ROW remains largely unobstructed and will likely be rail-trailed as well. According to Google Maps, most of the western half of the line has been rail-trailed or rail-banked (preserved for eventual rail-trailing).

That track is the West Shore Branch which formerly served Rifkin Scrap and was pulled up as of this past November. The tracks are still in place but the grade crossings have been removed. The West Shore is the southern portion of C&O's previously mentioned industrial track that crossed the Ludington Sub at Mershon and served the Carrollton area.

HESR utilizes former GTW and NYC trackage as their main line. The former is what connects Saginaw to Durand, passes by Saginaw High and becomes ex-NYC tracks at the former junction of the NYC Saginaw Branch which ran to Vassar to connect with the Bay City Branch at Denmark Junction (removed in 2002) near St. Mary's Hospital. From that point west across the bridge,north to Bay City and south to Paines is old NYC property.

This line also belonged to NYC and is now owned by HESR though is mainly used by LSRC (like CSX before it) to interchange grain traffic from with the Mid-Michigan RR at Paines, the former junction of the C&O Elmdale Sub (which connected Saginaw to Grand Rapids via the Plymouth Sub at the line's namesake town) and the NYC Jackson Branch which ran north from Jackson up through Lansing, Owosso, Chesaning and St. Charles before reaching Saginaw. From Saginaw to St. Charles it is now the Saginaw Valley Rail Trail. Halfway between St. Charles and Chesaning, the line still exists in piecemeal down to Owosso with the other segment from Lansing to Jackson still in place as well and still in (seldom) use.

The lines that radiate out of Saginaw Yard are as follows:
The one that heads northwest is the former Ludington (now Dean) Sub which crosses HESR at Mershon Junction on the west side of the river and terminates at Dow Chemical in Midland. This line passes the yard office on Washington Ave. where the line to Bay City branches off, curving northeast around Rifkin's new facility and GM enroute to North Bay City Yard, formerly owned by Detroit & Mackinac, LSRC's predecessor.

The line in the NE corner of the yard that shoots east is the former Bad Axe Sub which HESR now owns. It now ends at Crosswell near the town's Michigan Sugar plant. The Bad Axe Sub runs parallel along the coast of the Thumb and before it was cut back, at one point connected to the Port Huron Sub (where, I can't remember, however).

The line that passes Nexteer is the former Port Huron Sub which was rendered obsolete in the 80's around the same time as the Ludington Sub. Maintenance costs opted CSX to abandon the route in favor of utilizing trackage rights on the GTW (now CN) Flint Sub. The Port Huron Sub was cut back to Avoca in 1988 (IIRC) and later Brown City before being sold to HESR in 1998 who uses the line for grain traffic. LSRC still owns the line as far as Nexteer IIRC and to a far lesser extent of its predecessors, still services the plant. However, I think the main purpose of LSRC's ownership is to utilize the small yard for car storage; tank cars can often be found sitting there for lengthy periods of time awaiting their next assignments. The Port Huron Sub does in fact run through Vassar, and it's there where the line crosses the former NYC Bay City Branch. The Bay City Branch once connected Detroit to Mackinac City but since the late 1970's runs no further north than Munger and no further south of Millington, just south of Vassar.

All in all, Saginaw was once an epicenter of rail activity where 3 major railroads operated and the biggest in town (C&O) connected the city north to Bay City, northwest to Ludington, west to Grand Rapids (and by extension, Chicago), east to Port Huron, northeast to Bad Axe and south to Detroit, Toledo, and Columbus with a mulititude of small towns on line as well. It's crazy how many railroad tracks criss-crossed the state of Michigan at one time and how most linked to Saginaw.

[GTW6401]

Farther down the tracks and around the curve (near Stoker) is the connection between the "mainline" and the spur going to possible loading property by the river. At the end of this line the tracks fan out along both sides of the loading / processing facility.

That is Gavilon Grain, which is served by LSRC. Trains going to Gavilon first head south at Mershon, then back across the diamond on HESR tracks before reaching the spur switch just north of Stoker Road.

[AARR]

Who switches Lafarge next to Gavilon?

Farther down the tracks and around the curve (near Stoker) is the connection between the "mainline" and the spur going to possible loading property by the river. At the end of this line the tracks fan out along both sides of the loading / processing facility.

That is Gavilon Grain, which is served by LSRC. Trains going to Gavilon first head south at Mershon, then back across the diamond on HESR tracks before reaching the spur switch just north of Stoker Road.

[chapmaja]

Thanks for the answers.

A few more questions. BamaSubdivision 94 mentioned the HESR runs south by Saginaw High. I noticed tracks that appear to run between where the HESR line splits south, and where the Port Huron Sub connects to the LSRC mainline. What railroad would have operated this line, and when was it removed from service. The line still (per Google maps) appears to be in place between Genesee St and Cumberland St. but it is heavily overgrown. To the south of this track is a major manufacturing plant with several tracks still visible going inside. What former customer is this? When was this line removed. Did the junction between the now HESR and this line have a name (near Sheridan Ave)?

[BamaSubdivision94]

Thanks for the answers.

A few more questions. BamaSubdivision 94 mentioned the HESR runs south by Saginaw High. I noticed tracks that appear to run between where the HESR line splits south, and where the Port Huron Sub connects to the LSRC mainline. What railroad would have operated this line, and when was it removed from service. The line still (per Google maps) appears to be in place between Genesee St and Cumberland St. but it is heavily overgrown. To the south of this track is a major manufacturing plant with several tracks still visible going inside. What former customer is this? When was this line removed. Did the junction between the now HESR and this line have a name (near Sheridan Ave)?

That line was C&O property. It used to connect with the GTW (now HESR) at a location known as Brady Hill (named after the nearby cemetery) which is the area you described. The plant that is located between Genesee and Cumberland was formerly Delphi which had major presence in Saginaw throughout the 90's and till the mid-2000's when the facility folded. I don't know exactly when Delphi took over or who the owner of the plant originally was but this was a major customer for the C&O/ CSX. The line was ripped up in the late 80's I'm guessing, probably due to other customers down the line biting the dust. The line was then reduced to a spur dedicated to serving Delphi until the plant's eventual closure circa 2006.

I don't know much about the Brady Hill area and like almost every former junction/ interlocking site in Saginaw, there's little information, likely little physical evidence and no photographic evidence of the junction that once existed there.

[Evan]

Who switches Lafarge next to Gavilon?

Farther down the tracks and around the curve (near Stoker) is the connection between the "mainline" and the spur going to possible loading property by the river. At the end of this line the tracks fan out along both sides of the loading / processing facility.

That is Gavilon Grain, which is served by LSRC. Trains going to Gavilon first head south at Mershon, then back across the diamond on HESR tracks before reaching the spur switch just north of Stoker Road.

No one anymore.
As it stands, HESR & LSRC both switch Gavilon Grain. LSRC does majority of it, however, HESR now and again switch them.

[conrailmike]

That line was C&O property. It used to connect with the GTW (now HESR) at a location known as Brady Hill (named after the nearby cemetery) which is the area you described. The plant that is located between Genesee and Cumberland was formerly Delphi which had major presence in Saginaw throughout the 90's and till the mid-2000's when the facility folded. I don't know exactly when Delphi took over or who the owner of the plant originally was but this was a major customer for the C&O/ CSX. The line was ripped up in the late 80's I'm guessing, probably due to other customers down the line biting the dust. The line was then reduced to a spur dedicated to serving Delphi until the plant's eventual closure circa 2006.

I don't know much about the Brady Hill area and like almost every former junction/ interlocking site in Saginaw, there's little information, likely little physical evidence and no photographic evidence of the junction that once existed there.

Going on old photos I've seen, I'm almost positive that the plant was originally owned by none other than GM and back in the day was Chevrolet Saginaw Transmission Plants 1&2. Eventually being transferred to the Delco Moraine division in 1984, which became Delphi Automotive in 1995

[BamaSubdivision94]

That line was C&O property. It used to connect with the GTW (now HESR) at a location known as Brady Hill (named after the nearby cemetery) which is the area you described. The plant that is located between Genesee and Cumberland was formerly Delphi which had major presence in Saginaw throughout the 90's and till the mid-2000's when the facility folded. I don't know exactly when Delphi took over or who the owner of the plant originally was but this was a major customer for the C&O/ CSX. The line was ripped up in the late 80's I'm guessing, probably due to other customers down the line biting the dust. The line was then reduced to a spur dedicated to serving Delphi until the plant's eventual closure circa 2006.

I don't know much about the Brady Hill area and like almost every former junction/ interlocking site in Saginaw, there's little information, likely little physical evidence and no photographic evidence of the junction that once existed there.

Going on old photos I've seen, I'm almost positive that the plant was originally owned by none other than GM and back in the day was Chevrolet Saginaw Transmission Plants 1&2. Eventually being transferred to the Delco Moraine division in 1984, which became Delphi Automotive in 1995

The entire line was always owned by GM? What about the other industries serviced by the railroad further down the line and those off the river? I don't think all those customers were automotive-related.

Thanks for the info on the plant's history. Would you happen to know exactly when the line was cut back?

[conrailmike]

The entire line was always owned by GM? What about the other industries serviced by the railroad further down the line and those off the river? I don't think all those customers were automotive-related.

Thanks for the info on the plant's history. Would you happen to know exactly when the line was cut back?

I doubt the line was owned by GM but I don't know for sure. I do know at one time there were at least 6 or 7 facilities in Saginaw that were GM plants, there's only one now and that's Chevy Grey Iron which is now actually Saginaw Metal Casting. I would imagine the line was cut back probably after Delphi was gone, I don't see many suppliers actually requiring rail service these days.

[BamaSubdivision94]

The entire line was always owned by GM? What about the other industries serviced by the railroad further down the line and those off the river? I don't think all those customers were automotive-related.

Thanks for the info on the plant's history. Would you happen to know exactly when the line was cut back?

I doubt the line was owned by GM but I don't know for sure. I do know at one time there were at least 6 or 7 facilities in Saginaw that were GM plants, there's only one now and that's Chevy Grey Iron which is now actually Saginaw Metal Casting. I would imagine the line was cut back probably after Delphi was gone, I don't see many suppliers actually requiring rail service these days.

I see.

As far as the line being reduced to a spur for Delphi, as far back as I remember (I was born in 1994), the line was always that way. I remember when I would have to travel to daycare in 96/97 and we would pass by the plant everyday. The line had to be cut back before I was born at least. I'm going to guess it was shortened some time in the 80's like so many other tracks across America were.

[astrovanman1989]

the railroads lost there business when the auto plants started going to on time delivery (only stock the least amount of parts)
i used to work at the old delhi plant on genasee ave and cumberland until it closed in 2014

there was lotsof tracks into the plant the even had crossing lights
i guess the handeled inbound/out bound auto parts scrap metal coal for power house

[JDavis21835]

That is Gavilon Grain, which is served by LSRC. Trains going to Gavilon first head south at Mershon, then back across the diamond on HESR tracks before reaching the spur switch just north of Stoker Road.

[/quote]
No one anymore.
As it stands, HESR & LSRC both switch Gavilon Grain. LSRC does majority of it, however, HESR now and again switch them.[/quote]

I was not aware of HESR doing any switching of the Gavilion elevator by lafarge. As far as I have known, that facility has been Lake State, and CSX before that. That Said, HESR has switched the Gavilion facility to the north off the GTW line as long as I can remember. That said, that facility had been close for some time, and just before I moved to Illinois it had become active again

[Steve B]

This is all RR history too, so here are the Saginaw & vicinity GM plants with their longest-used names. In most cases the names changed in later years and/or were originally owned by other companies, but all that info is on the web.

Central Foundry Div. Malleable Iron: 1917-2007. 77 W. Center St.
Chevrolet Grey Iron: 1918-present. 1629 N. Washington.
Chevrolet Nodular Iron: 1967-1987. 2100 Veterans Memorial Pkwy.
Chevrolet parts plant: 1907-1983. 6th & Washington.
Chevrolet transmission plant: 1919-2014. 2328 E. Genesee.
Saginaw Steering Plant 1: ca. 1906-1984. 628 N. Hamilton.
Saginaw Steering Plant 2: 1941-2001. 1400 Holmes.
Saginaw Steering Plants 3-7: 1953-present. 3900 E. Holland Rd.