Saginaw Sub Signal Replacements?

[atrainguy60]

I don't know if this is old news, but according to the October issue of Railfan and Railroad, CSX not only plans on not selling the Saginaw Sub north of Plymouth (because they "decided it was profitable enough, with opportunities for business to increase"), but they are going to replace the many old searchlights found along this section of the subdivision. The short news bit on this subject says they are going to start this mass replacement in late 2016. I guess this is because their plan to just remove the signal system completely was denied.

P.S. There was also a separate excerpt on the wind turbine trains running this year over the line, with a cool picture of a northbound blade train crossing the diamond in Holly.

[Tier4GEVO]

I don't know if this is old news, but according to the October issue of Railfan and Railroad, CSX not only plans on not selling the Saginaw Sub north of Plymouth (because they "decided it was profitable enough, with opportunities for business to increase"), but they are going to replace the many old searchlights found along this section of the subdivision. The short news bit on this subject says they are going to start this mass replacement in late 2016. I guess this is because their plan to just remove the signal system completely was denied.

P.S. There was also a separate excerpt on the wind turbine trains running this year over the line, with a cool picture of a northbound blade train crossing the diamond in Holly.

WInd turbines were a nice treat while they were here. Haven't been any in maybe 2-3 months.

[TrainWatcher]

I am still trying to figure out CSX's game plan for the entire Saginaw Sub. Half of the replacement signals have been up and ready for service for a better part of a year south of Wayne (Romulus for one), and no signals have been installed near Wayne proper yet as far as I can tell. No new signals at John Hix, yet a new installation at Lilley Road (with a rather confusing slow indication added to the main track mast, with no added crossover at that location as of yet. Not sure why you'd need be doing Slow Speed [per CSX rules] for a good 2 miles before you get to the CP at Main Street when trains heading East or West at that point are able to slow down for the connections as it is currently signaled and in the timetable). Also, rumor had it that the US&S dwarfs at Main Street were to disappear and an overhead bridge was to be installed atleast for southbound movement. Nothing new north of Plymouth has been installed or even looked to be planned to be replaced yet. Time will tell, but as a casual observer it's highly odd.

[Saturnalia]

What evidence do you have that it is actually a slow speed-capable signal? Keep in mind, all new signals will conform to the now-standard Seaboard rules (1281-1298) and NOT the old Chessie rules, C1281-C1298. That makes a world of difference! The only way to know is to actually know what lights are present in each head of the signal, and then compare them to the rule book.

[TrainWatcher]

The mast for the northbound on the main at Joy Road is a 3 indication head. Even Racer confirmed when they were installed the Main track signal had 3 heads. You can clearly see 3 heads from I-275 as well. On a 3 head signal, the middle and lowest head on a 3 light signal are SPEED signals.

Such as a MEDIUM APPROACH MEDIUM:


1283-A - Medium Approach Medium by MQT3001, on Flickr

Or APPROACH SLOW:

1284 - Approach Slow by MQT3001, on Flickr

Meaning the new CP that will be eventually put in use at Joy Road will be able to atleast give Medium Approach Medium, Medium Approach Slow, Slow Clear, Slow Approach, and possibly a Restricting (using all 3 heads). Now, when I am out there next I would like to see the bottom head and see what colors would be available. But, I am expecting a crossover to be cut in there, as it makes no operational sense to have a train, unless it was to crossover, have a slow speed ~2 miles before an interlocking that is already set-up for slow speed into the Toledo and GR Wyes.

[Saturnalia]

Approach Slow makes perfect sense. It tells you that you have to be at or under slow speed by the time you hit the next signal, which sounds like Plymouth...so yeah, that's what you'd get. If there is a signal in between, it could be an approach limited, which gives them further warning of the approach slow coming up shortly before the slow clear. Coming up to Holland is like this, stepping down from clear to the approach slow at the depot, because the slow clear is so close.

So it looks like either an approach limited for an approach slow spaced closely to the slow clear, or a slow approach because the next signal is a slow clear. Based on your description, anyways.

Knowing what lights on on there would help. If the 3rd head exists for a yellow or green light, it will also have a red and they'll put the Lunar there, too (absolutes only). Thus your third head has at least two lights on intermediates and at least three on absolutes. That'd be another slice of evidence as to their plans.

Additionally, if the signal has the southbound signal mounted on the same mast, there will be no turnouts, being either a holdout absolute or regular intermediate. So this location will have four masts for a crossover, or two for a holdout or intermediate. Again, another clue.

[RRguy]

The signals in question are double sided. It's a regular Intermediate Signal. The new signal system has a two mile limit between Control Points or Intermediates.

[TrainWatcher]

I have never seen an intermediate signal that had 3 heads before, just control point and interlocking. Thanks for that info.

[CSXBOY]

Jeez i gotta get up there and get some shots before signals go away. Is CSX really gonna sell the line from Plymouth to Flint? if they do I will be sad

[RRguy]

Don't beat yourself up trying to figure out the planning behind everything. From what I hear Wayne was delayed because NS, Amtrak, State Of Michigan, and CSX are all involved. There's work starting there now though. It makes sense to keep the project going, go back complete Wayne, then cut-in the new system. I

[BamaSubdivision94]

Jeez i gotta get up there and get some shots before signals go away. Is CSX really gonna sell the line from Plymouth to Flint? if they do I will be sad

The OP said that CSX will not be selling north of Plymouth.

[Schteinkuh]

Jeez i gotta get up there and get some shots before signals go away. Is CSX really gonna sell the line from Plymouth to Flint? if they do I will be sad

The OP said that CSX will not be selling north of Plymouth.

Yeah, hold the tears

[trainjunkie47]

Jeez i gotta get up there and get some shots before signals go away. Is CSX really gonna sell the line from Plymouth to Flint? if they do I will be sad

The OP said that CSX will not be selling north of Plymouth.

CSX makes a small mint on the old PH&D, despite paying CN to run trackage rights between Port Huron and Flint. That alone justifies keeping the track.

[Saturnalia]

Jeez i gotta get up there and get some shots before signals go away. Is CSX really gonna sell the line from Plymouth to Flint? if they do I will be sad

The OP said that CSX will not be selling north of Plymouth.

CSX makes a small mint on the old PH&D, despite paying CN to run trackage rights between Port Huron and Flint. That alone justifies keeping the track.

Not necessarily a reason to keep the Saginaw Sub, however. CSX could work out a deal with CN to get to the PHD from Detroit instead of Flint.

If you all think the Saginaw Sub north of Plymouth is solidly CSX, you're mistaking yourself.