CN’s trackage rights contract with CSX running over the Flint Sub to access the PH&D is non-transferable if CSX was to sell the line. Additionally, LSRC would not gain rights to run over the CN yard to go from their paper mill spur to the Marysville branch. They would have to have power on each line and interchange all cars with CN.
Therefore, I don’t see CSX getting much value from a potential sale of the PH&D branch.
Would you happen to know where a copy of the trackage rights agreement could be found online? I had heard locally that that's the only reason CSX is still running to Port Huron- CN wouldn't allow the trackage rights to be transferred.
I had also heard that if the LSRC did try to get involved with the ex-PH&D line, that that would violate some provision in the contract with CN, although that could have been just a local rumor.
Details of that level tend to be redacted as confidential business information.
Recent track rights can be found at the STB online.
The Flint-Port Huron rights aren't recent.
I had also heard that if the LSRC did try to get involved with the ex-PH&D line, that that would violate some provision in the contract with CN, although that could have been just a local rumor.
I don't see how CN would have any say in LSRC taking over CSX's ex-PH&D, except how to handle interchange and whether to allow or not LSRC crossing from one side of the CN to the other.
Nothing is set in stone and for the right amount of money and back scratching any new contract can be written up. I'm willing to bet LSRC is trying to get the rest of the way to Toledo, but probably wouldn't bat an eye if CSX offered the PH&D.
CN’s trackage rights contract with CSX running over the Flint Sub to access the PH&D is non-transferable if CSX was to sell the line. Additionally, LSRC would not gain rights to run over the CN yard to go from their paper mill spur to the Marysville branch. They would have to have power on each line and interchange all cars with CN.
Therefore, I don’t see CSX getting much value from a potential sale of the PH&D branch.
Would you happen to know where a copy of the trackage rights agreement could be found online? I had heard locally that that's the only reason CSX is still running to Port Huron- CN wouldn't allow the trackage rights to be transferred.
I had also heard that if the LSRC did try to get involved with the ex-PH&D line, that that would violate some provision in the contract with CN, although that could have been just a local rumor.
I would assume that CSX and CN possess copies.
I wouldn’t know where to look online to see if there’s a copy.
I wouldn’t know where to look online to see if there’s a copy.
Oh. When you stated that the trackage rights were non-transferable, I wondered if you had an online source that stated they're non-transferable. I had heard the same elsewhere and have been keeping an eye out for a source to confirm they're not transferable. I was just hoping you had a citable source.
I wouldn’t know where to look online to see if there’s a copy.
Oh. When you stated that the trackage rights were non-transferable, I wondered if you had an online source that stated they're non-transferable. I had heard the same elsewhere and have been keeping an eye out for a source to confirm they're not transferable. I was just hoping you had a citable source.
I dug around in old issues of the Federal Register available through the Library of Congress online. The trackage rights became effective on March 20, 1989 between MP 272.5 and MP 332.3. No other details provided, and the transaction was exempt from ICC approval under 49 CFR 1180.2(d)(7).
49 CFR § 1180.6 says:
"...parties to exempt trackage rights agreements and renewal of agreements described at § 1180.2(d)(7) must submit one copy of the executed agreement or renewal agreement with the notice of exemption, or within 10 days of the date that the agreement is executed, whichever is later."
So it appears that part of the law (assuming it was there in 1989 and not a product of subsequent amendments) did require that a copy of the agreement, and any possible renewal agreements to be filed with the ICC/STB. But those might be sealed to the public as confidential business information. It'd be fascinating to at least learn how many years the initial agreement was for. Finding out whether the public can access that would be quite a quest. It would probably require a trip to the National Archives. The info is likely not just sitting on some website!
I dug around in old issues of the Federal Register available through the Library of Congress online. The trackage rights became effective on March 20, 1989 between MP 272.5 and MP 332.3. No other details provided, and the transaction was exempt from ICC approval under 49 CFR 1180.2(d)(7).
49 CFR § 1180.6 says:
"...parties to exempt trackage rights agreements and renewal of agreements described at § 1180.2(d)(7) must submit one copy of the executed agreement or renewal agreement with the notice of exemption, or within 10 days of the date that the agreement is executed, whichever is later."
So it appears that part of the law (assuming it was there in 1989 and not a product of subsequent amendments) did require that a copy of the agreement, and any possible renewal agreements to be filed with the ICC/STB. But those might be sealed to the public as confidential business information. It'd be fascinating to at least learn how many years the initial agreement was for. Finding out whether the public can access that would be quite a quest. It would probably require a trip to the National Archives. The info is likely not just sitting on some website!
Thank you for posting that, SteveB.
From some other documents I found while searching the STB's site, I agree that the filing was likely sealed since it would have contained confidential business information. Some of the trackage rights agreements in the Saginaw/Bay City area are also sealed for the same reason.
I suspect a trip to the National Archives may be necessary for information I'm looking for for another project, assuming that a cretin like me would be permitted to view ancient recordation records for equipment that was cut up 50+ years ago...
From some other documents I found while searching the STB's site, I agree that the filing was likely sealed since it would have contained confidential business information. Some of the trackage rights agreements in the Saginaw/Bay City area are also sealed for the same reason.
I suspect a trip to the National Archives may be necessary for information I'm looking for for another project, assuming that a cretin like me would be permitted to view ancient recordation records for equipment that was cut up 50+ years ago...
You're welcome. Lots of neat stuff there, especially the ICC WWI-era valuation records. Hope to make a trip there someday.
