CN WINS THE EJ&E!!!

[CAT345C]

K.........Who cares, CN bought the EJE the STB allowed it CN has plans for it, complaining about then negative affects will not make a do over or undo happen. I don't think our lives will stop or any of us will want to stop railfanning because of it.

[geeps]

Its that stinky BIG PICTURE that your missing Geep...and get this...I am in NO WAY CONDONING BIG BUSINESS NOR ANY CLASS ONE RAILWAY...I think many of you know how I already feel about that. But the CN point is THIS: With this new route the vast and sundry public of NORTH AMERICA will benefit by this aquisition thru more effecient transportation between cities throughout the north american continent. Do you honestly think CN managment is doing this move on a whim? Do you think they came up with this as a way to punish the western burbs of Chitown for some misdeed? NO they did it to improve traffic patterns and reduce shipping costs for many types of freight in our area. It will BENEFIT many, many MILLIONS more than it hurts. While its sad that those folks in the burbs might have to wait for their Latte at Starbucks a lil longer, so be it. The country will benefit by this.
Doc

Do you think its good to move a train at 100 mph to get it to the destination a little faster to save a buck, deviating from safe operating practices? Your looking at it from one side, helping your customers by putting others out in the street, is not good business practices. NOT just civilians which I focused on, but customers. Your transportaing freight for people at points A and D, but bypass B and C to do so. Thats the same reason they took companines in the past to make a faster route. Then customers along the line get screwed over. If they they had left well enough along, they still could have made their goals work.
You might be moving freight for some guy, a little faster, and oh yea its saving him money, and its saving CN money. But its costing other money, for something they never wanted.
I never said CN is doing it purposely to hurt them, but they just don't care that they are hurting them. Its the fact that they dont care.
Saying that Chicago's citizens will sleep better, isn't legitimate. Your saying that well the problem is somewhere else now, so oh well, not my problem, well the problem hasn't gone away, its just moved and its hurting someone else.
Those people in the "burbs" you make sound like they aint s***, but they do deserve something, your saying that millions will benefit, who are those millions? its certainly not me, idk maybe your a money hungry CEO or something too, so you might be one of the millions. Not not going to have any effect on anyone but some of the higher ups at CN and their big investors, so they can buy another house, or a solid gold toilet seat. Thats what pisses me off, its not going to help anyone who actually needs it right now. My family is in the poor house now thanks to big businesses, and greedy politicians, and the sorry SOBs who support them. My Grandpa is dead thanks to them.

BTW im not looking at this from a Railfan stand point, oooo "we lost those little orange engines" its the fact that people get away with this. Its poor ethical decisions fueled by money hungry people who have hurt many people in the way to make more money.

[SD80MAC]

Such is life, geeps.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

If I didn't know better, I'd be tempted to think EMDACeSteve hacked Geeps' account, considering the amount of anti-CN rhetoric on this thread...

In other places, references were made to the burbs and the NIMBYs...ironically, I'm now living/working in an area relatively close to the line in question (I think the EJE mainline is within 5 miles of my apartment...maybe 6). In my opinion, in dealing with the traffic and other nonsense in this area (and after reading discussions regarding the deal on the IlliniRail email list), Barrington will get what it deserves. Considering the tax rates in this area, and the amount of commerce that happens here, the municipalities collecting those tax dollars are loaded. If they can't take a couple dollars from their precious luxuries (at least one township's parks/recreation district owns a nice health club, among other things) to build separated grade crossings (or other public-safety things), the blame for the congestion and related casualties falls directly on them and their unwillingness to spend a little bit of cash on something other than their own freakin' comfort.

Those people in the burbs? Contrary to what you wrote Geeps, they really ain't s***. They are THE S***. The TOP S*** or the KING S***. Maybe it's different for people in the other burbs, but a lot of the corporate fat cats that cause the problems you refer to live out this way.

And the people along the St. Charles Air Line (CN mainline through downtown Chicago) will sleep better without CN running most of their trains along the line. If CN were to totally remove the line, eventually the areas near the line would increase in property value (if they haven't already, being in the city and all), and residents of those areas would likely be more economically comfortable as well.

[jukeman45]

Go take a pill and calm down CN hater

This just in on WGN News...CN has won approval from the STB to purchase the EJ&E from US Steel. This paves the way for vastly improved service Around not THRU Chicago.
Good for them ! How a group of NIMBY's can hold North American commerce and trade hostage was beyond me. This is for the betterment of the whole continent and shouldn't have been held up. Evidently the STB must have felt the same way.
Now go buy the csx trackage from Trowbridge to Porter to get to Kirk Yard and I'll be happy.
You heard it here first...
Doc

CN is just gunna F@#$ everything again, I know from a business point of veiw they are doing awEsome. But from a competition stand point, their going to screw their customers over just like on the WC.
I wish CN would just be split up like any other monopoly.
Look at the phone company, they got split up some years ago. Became SBC, Ameretech AT&T, now its AT&T again, they are just reforming into one large system again.

Those Nimby's you speak of are people who dont wanna live next a busy railroad line, and I wouldn't blame them. I'm glad those "NIMBY'S" held them off for as long as they could. I hope somewhere down the road CN gets a big a$$ lawsuit for screwing people over.
Class one railroads are just out to serve the big guys, small shippers are getting screwed over big time. Shortlines provide better customer service.
CN is just gunna take over everything and screw everyone over.
And its not really CN its that bastard CEO Hunter Hairrison or whatever from the IC.
Screw the CN

[saxman]

My two cents on the CN/EJ&E merger.

1. kirk Yard will be the merchandise yard in Chicago and Markham will be the intermodal yard. Battle Creek will no longer be a crew change point. The new buzz word in railroading is: velocity. This is not synonomus with speed. One achieves velocity in railroading by going as far as possible with out stopping to reclassify. My gut feeling. Flint to Griffith with one crew. Either turns to and from Flint to Sarnia with U.S. Crews or Canadians run through to Flint. The powers to be will look at the trains and find ways for as many trains as possible to not stop and work Flint, Durand and Lansing. Viola, velocity is increased.

2. A Wye will be intsalled in the northeast quadrant at Griffith, IN to move from CN to EJ&E to get to Kirk. Not too much a a feat as there had been a connection in this quadrant in the not to distant past.

3. Geep; Take a deep breath and exhale slowly. The communities and people along the EJ&E affected by the merger will survive and even prosper. Most will discover, with the passage of time, that there was no boogie man.

4. Think about what E. Hunter Harrison has accopmlished by purchasing the EJ&E. In one bold move, with CN's own money, he downgraded the relevance of CREATE and its need for massive amounts of tax payer dollars. Remember when he pulled CN and its money, out of CREATE a few year ago because of stalemate? Now for a mere $300 million of CN's own money, he has his own right-of-way and not held hostage to political infighting that has been CREATE. Do not for one minute think the political side show by the communities along the EJ&E or the numerous mitigation agreements and there additonal costs were not factored in to the price of getting the EJ&E.

Just my thoughts. Have a Happy New Year

[Norm]

Guys,

Just take a long serious look at this acquisition. There have been many of those in the past that have had more consequences.

There have been many mergers in the past, and the Surfboard has declared this one to be minor.

What do we stand (as railfans) to debate the loss of one railroad being merged onto another? Was the loss of the Wabash to NS a crisis? Not in my mind even though it was my way home from the military in the sixties.

Forget emotions, and get in touch with the fact things change. CN inherits a still working roundhouse. New days are upon us.

[AARR]

Interesting thread guys. Thanks for the good info.

[CSX_CO]

Only way to get to Kirk from Porter is on the NS...not so. Preliminary work has been done at Porter to take the CSX over the NS to the Lake Subdivision. A new connector in the northwest quad at Willow Creek to the B&O and then on to Curtis and your into Kirk without even trying hard. You see the J already transfers at Curtis from Kirk so no stretch of the imagination PUTS A TRAIN IN THERE from THERE. I'm not saying it will/may/gonna happen but its a semi plausable scenario. Putting in a GT/J connector at Griffith would be problematic. (not impossible) Tight corner and then again you have peoples back yards to contend with all over again. On the NS or on the Lake or on the B&O you ain't got dat problem! Its Industrial already!

How will the CN get to Porter in the first place? Take over the entire thing from Lansing through GR? If that happens, all the CSX employee's will probably be transferred, as CN will not want the hassles of dovetailing, prior rights, etc for what amounts to *a handful* of employee's.

I could see that happening for the CSX trains between GR and Chicago, but not for the CN. That has always been 'in the works', but I doubt CN is going to purchase ANOTHER route across Michigan, when their current route could be upgraded back to double track, and a wye installed at Griffith. "Don't use cannon to kill mosquito."

Much easier for the CN to just put in a connection at Griffith and avoid all that cost (single track railroad that would need major upgrades) and have 100% control of your own destiny the entire way. Also, I'm not sure how much room Kirk has to expand. Its pretty well landlocked with USS to the north, EJE main to the west, and CSX and NS to the south. It may only handle 900 cars now, but 2000 cars probably isn't out the question. Avon is probably comperable in size, and they handle 1600 a day even with RCO's doing the work. They have also changed their tune, as they'd originally said that Kirk wouldn't play that much of a part in their plans, being mostly a support yard for USS because it was on a 'stem' off their new combined mainline.

The connection at Curtis isn't that great as it is between CSX and EJE. Works well for the coal traffic and daily interchange. Besides, if CN *wanted* that option, a wye at Wellsboro between the CN and B&O and you don't need the GR portion at all. I doubt CSX wants CN trains on their railroad though, and I'm sure CSX would want stretches of 3rd main installed to help with traffic moving between Wellsboro and Kirk. If I were in charge I'd want 3rd main up the hill from McCool to Webster on CSX, especially with the 'two unit land barges' the CN likes to run.

Looking at my 'Official Way Cool CORA Map' of the Chicago area (I bet none of you got one either

I have one. Anyone can get one. IHB sells them through their company store for under $20. I have a 4' x 6' colorized one, and I took it, had it reduced, and laminated. Pretty slick.

Practice Safe CSX

[Typhoon]

Here's another fun fact, there are three crossings in Barrington, IL one of the towns EJ&E now CN run through. Representatives of these communities noted that CN tends to run trains longer than 10,000 ft which would block the moment of local traffic, emergency vehicles, etc. CN's respones to this problem is "Well, we'll make the trains go faster". On average Barrington's crossings will see school buses passing 840 times a day, thus increasing risk to children, may not be your children but someones children.

The

[Typhoon]

[quote="CSX_CO"]

[Norm]

If y'all would take the time to look at the photos on Virtual Earth, you would see there are not that many grade crossings on the EJ&E as it goes around the big city. Take a look. It may change your mind.

[OwlCaboose2853]

If y'all would take the time to look at the photos on Virtual Earth, you would see there are not that many grade crossings on the EJ&E as it goes around the big city. Take a look. It may change your mind.

EJ&E website; http://www.tstarinc.com/eje/index2.html
The J map; http://www.tstarinc.com/eje/map2.html
enlarge map; http://www.tstarinc.com/eje/eje2/img/eje-lg-map.pdf

[AARR]

My family is in the poor house now thanks to big businesses, and greedy politicians, and the sorry SOBs who support them. My Grandpa is dead thanks to them.

What happened?

FYI - If business does not try to grow and improve it'll go backwards because it's competitors will move forward. The only way for a business to both stay stagnate and prosper is if all their competitors do the same. For all businesses to agree to that is called collusion and is illegal.

[geeps]

I know, I understand what your saying, big businesses need to grow, to stay competitive. But by screwing your customers over isn't good business. But they do do it. not on purpose but they know they are hurting their customers, but the people at the top who make these decisions do it, because they want more money. I really don't believe they truly care about their company, they just see dollar signs. Maybe back in the day, but back in the day most railroads were small enough that they survived on local customers. Look at the proposed Watco purchase of the Michigan Line, they had some 40 businesses who wanted rail service, that NS and Conrail chased out.

In the 70s Conrail had a mess on their hands, with a bunch of branches that were not worth a whole lot.
However, you had companies like Wisconsin Central who provided good customer service, and had great operating strategies, and were a successful growing railroad, they never took their success overboard. Ed Burkheart i think was the CEO of WC after researching him a little further you'd see that he really cared about his railroad. In a Trains Magazine interview, he stated, that their biggest asset was their customer, and that if they took care of their assets they would take care of themselves.
Once you get too large, major companies loose focus on who's important. You get people in office who just want more money for themselves. They just get money and they cant get enough of it.
Its that greedy-ness and carelessness that i cannot stand.
Same thing with the Grand Trunk.
Do you understand what I'm trying to get at here?

As for those corporate big wigs who live in the suburbs, yeah they live in the suburbs, but also do many working-class families, who live and work in the city.

[Typhoon]

I know, I understand what your saying, big businesses need to grow, to stay competitive. But by screwing your customers over isn't good business. But they do do it. not on purpose but they know they are hurting their customers, but the people at the top who make these decisions do it, because they want more money. I really don't believe they truly care about their company, they just see dollar signs. Maybe back in the day, but back in the day most railroads were small enough that they survived on local customers. Look at the proposed Watco purchase of the Michigan Line, they had some 40 businesses who wanted rail service, that NS and Conrail chased out.

In the 70s Conrail had a mess on their hands, with a bunch of branches that were not worth a whole lot.
However, you had companies like Wisconsin Central who provided good customer service, and had great operating strategies, and were a successful growing railroad, they never took their success overboard. Ed Burkheart i think was the CEO of WC after researching him a little further you'd see that he really cared about his railroad. In a Trains Magazine interview, he stated, that their biggest asset was their customer, and that if they took care of their assets they would take care of themselves.
Once you get too large, major companies loose focus on who's important. You get people in office who just want more money for themselves. They just get money and they cant get enough of it.
Its that greedy-ness and carelessness that i cannot stand.
Same thing with the Grand Trunk.
Do you understand what I'm trying to get at here?

As for those corporate big wigs who live in the suburbs, yeah they live in the suburbs, but also do many working-class families, who live and work in the city.

1st of all, your doing a lot of assuming. What customers on the J are getting screwed? Are you just thinking they will, or do you have some firsthand knowledge that you would like to share? As for Ed Burkheart, seems like a good guy, a good guy that for the most part abandon the GB&W, and the FRV, bet there were some customers who got "screwed in those deals. And lets not forget, Mr Burkheart got the was told by the BOD either resign or get fired, so he didn't do that great of a job.

[GTW6401]

The problems with the Fox River Valley Railroad began even before the WC acquired it in 1993 as it was plagued with debt. C&NW sold the trackage for $61 Million and was purchased for $2.8 Million by WC. The railroad was only around for 5 years, and placed under the management of GBW in 1991.

The main reason that Burkhardt was forced out was the stock price dropping from $41.00 in 1996 to $17.25 in July 1999. WC also purchased many different railroads in places like England and Tasmania, which proved to be poor performers. They also ran out of expansion opportunities with continuous railroads.

In regards to the St. Charles Airline and the people living along it.....I wouldn’t feel too sorry for them. That area between Roosevelt and Cermak Roads is one of the fastest growing areas of the city with many new condominium projects popping up all over the place. A buddy of mine was looking at a condo overlooking the IC mainline and he said the railroad being there wasnt a factor of not purchasing, but rather the floor plans.

[AARR]

Do you understand what I'm trying to get at here?

Yes, I understand. As business gets bigger it gets more impersonal and more about numbers. I wouldn't go so far to call it greed but I won't say it isn't, either.

[Fred]

Maybe not yet, Uncle Pete has cried foul to the STB, case might come up for review again. Never knew "The J" was so popular!

[AARR]

Seems like some things CN is interested in becomes very popular...