Durand Union Station Closed

[GP9R]

I went to the Model RR Work Session last night and I got to see the damage from the leaking water. We where lucky enough that it only dripped on the yard and missed our recently rebuilt scenery on the other side of the room. However we do have to rebuild a section of yard by the roundhouse, Which was also spared by the water.

[jukeman45]

Yeah, I know that you said AIR.

But it was not an AIR pipe, it was the condensation pipe.

Condensation = Water.

Water freezes.

Ok, EXPLAIN to me why a dry system would have a Condensation pipe that could freeze and break?

[DepotFan1982]

Ok, I would be happy to explain.

We use a dry system at the Depot. This means that there is not any water in the fire system lines.

This system is filled instead with pressurized air that must maintain a certain psi. If the pressure drops (ie the sprinklers come in contact with heat and burst) then the system sents an alarm to the fire department and the alarm company.

The pressurized air must come from somewhere, thats where the air compressor comes in to picture.

This air compressor pumps air thru the lines and maintains the proper psi. Air that is compressed in a compressor comes from the open room the compressor is in. It takes in air from the room, with all of its contaminants. Most go thru and get stuck in the filter, but water vapor does not. Goes right thru the compressor into the air lines.

That water vapor builds up over time. That is why when you install a system like we have, you put low points and drain valves in, to catch this built up condensation. This condensation pipe (now filled with water) burst. TA DA. That is how an AIR FILLED PIPE BURSTS. Its due to a build up of water (condensation).

And for the next question about than if its a dry system, where did all the water come from?

That has to do with those little heat sensors and the air pressure that is maintained. The air pressure that fills the fire system also fills up a pressure release valve that holds back hundreds of gallons of water. When the pressure goes down, from a pipe burst, or from one of the little sprinkler sensors bursting, that pressure is lowered enough to allow the release valve to open up and allow all of that water to fill the lines. This only takes a matter of seconds. Its is the same pressure that you see if you were to open a fire hydrant.

[hobojim]

I probably can. I have worked on and fixed this type of situation many times during my working career.
Obviously water got into the system, this could happen in a couple of different ways. The least likely is the company that worked on it just forgot to drain the water before they pressured it with air.
A much more likely scenario is that when they recharged the system with air, the valve did not seat properly and after the water was turned back on it slowly seeped past the valve seat until it filled the pipe with water and subsequently froze. If this is what happened, no one would know it unless what just happened does in fact occur. The water would eventually displace the air in the system, but with no change in pressure, no alarm would sound.
A couple of reasons that a valve does not seat properly is sediment in the line, (very likely) or worn out and degraded seals,(many seals are rubber).
AS far as condensation building up in the line, there was not enough time nor changes in temperature to cause that, so I doubt that was the cause. Also the volume of compressed air needed to cause that amount of water would be thousands of times what is there.
Hope this helps
Jim

[hobojim]

Depotfan, excellent explanation of how the system works. It is amazing how fast once the pressure is released at how fast the water shows up. Reading about this brought back many memories of freezing my ass and hands off in zero weather fixing these leaks.

[DepotFan1982]

Like you said though, there could have been a number of reason this happened. Thats why the fire suppression system company has been around the depot for the last week investigating.

Hopefully they can let us know the exact cause. Until then, its all just guess work.

Thanks though for the scenarios that you brought up though, never had thought about possible sediment. The company was out just before Christmas and had not mentioned any issues though.

All I know, is thank god for insurance, volunteers and donations. Thats what it will take to get it back on track.

[jukeman45]

Like you said though, there could have been a number of reason this happened. Thats why the fire suppression system company has been around the depot for the last week investigating.

Hopefully they can let us know the exact cause. Until then, its all just guess work.

Thanks though for the scenarios that you brought up though, never had thought about possible sediment. The company was out just before Christmas and had not mentioned any issues though.

All I know, is thank god for insurance, volunteers and donations. Thats what it will take to get it back on track.

Maybe while everyone is there they can fix the valve on the urinal in the men's room that's been broke forever.

[DepotFan1982]

Oh, you are preaching to the choir about the urinal.

I have been asking to fix that since Railroad Days!!!!

I dont even want to get into that whole mess.

[jukeman45]

Oh, you are preaching to the choir about the urinal.

I have been asking to fix that since Railroad Days!!!!

I dont even want to get into that whole mess.

Yea, I know how it goes. At least you're trying

[mzeblu]

I seem to remember a bunch of construction in the attic that Sloany insisted on doing
but did not want to get permits for. I wonder how many of the nails they pounded into the
floor hit the pipes that ran directly beneath them? Once again,, a board of directors
doing whatever the hell they want regardless of professional opinions given.

Isnt it funny that everything that good old Brooks boy is put in charge of turns into
a cluster f***? Well,, not too funny really considering what was once a wonderful opportunity
has turned into a red hat club that will likely soon have to shut the doors because there
is no money.

Thousands of these systems installed throughout the country, the one over the most poorly
managed part of the station decides to fail.. hmmm..?
Dont weep though,, I'm sure most of the originals are out there in the ovid-else area anyway.

[sd70accsxt700]

Boy it sure is refreshing to see nothing, nothing at all has changed. Now I know why more people spend time over at SRI, or anywhere else, then at Durand any more.

[BerkshireKid]

Matt, the attitude at DUSI has changed quite a bit since April of 08 when the new board came into the Depot. They have their heads in the right direction now but have to work out years of poor management.
Steven and myself prefer to put our time toward SRI because of the knowledge and experience we can gain for eventual jobs for the railroads be it steam or diesel related.

[mzeblu]

Boy it sure is refreshing to see nothing, nothing at all has changed. Now I know why more people spend time over at SRI, or anywhere else, then at Durand any more.

It's quite sad really.. It had.. so much potential... but when you scrap all plans to move a place forward and keep trying to "SAVE" the same station for 30 straight years.... what you see today is there is inevitable.

The funniest part is to watch the old bitties arguing over which one of them actually "saved" the station.. lol

Ohh.. gotta love the travel department! Only travel department/club at a Railroad Museum / Library that books 24 straight NON RAILROAD RELATED trips.. I think they snuck one a railroad related one in in 2007 or 2008 and screwed up their streak...

J. O. K. E.

You have the same core of goofballs over there that have screwed things up for the last 4 or 5 years still sitting on the board running the show.. and guess what... same result. Sure.. you have a couple new people on a board of directors but the same people calling the shots really.

[mzeblu]

Matt, the attitude at DUSI has changed quite a bit since April of 08 when the new board came into the Depot. They have their heads in the right direction now but have to work out years of poor management.
Steven and myself prefer to put our time toward SRI because of the knowledge and experience we can gain for eventual jobs for the railroads be it steam or diesel related.

Your smoking something...

That board rejects those with the highest ties to companies like CN and others..
No businesses wants to deal with that board,, they are tired of things there.
How does a board that has their heads on straight end 2008 with NO MONEY?
Fund raisers have been a disaster, barely covering the cost of the event....
And the GREAT NEW BOARD who is supposed to have loads of volunteers had to resort to getting
kids from the local special education department (God Bless them... nothing against those guys)
as apposed to being able to call in the Professional contacts that everyone claims to have but cannot produce?

You sir have your head in a hole somewhere and have been drinking Brooks & Sloan kool-aide for too long.

Proof is in the pudding... and you guys at the depot have no money to buy any!

[BerkshireKid]

WHAT!?!?!?!?! You don't like the trips to Frankenmuth??? They were a highlight!!

Well next door atleast in the model RR room we'll be starting to redo a 4X5 ft section of layout at the stockyards right next to the roundhouse. We had a board that warped to much so we took off the scenery and track (thanks god we can get rid of the mirco engineering track!!! OR as i call it MicroCrap!) and hopefully tonite we'll replace the board and have the track rehooked on fri nite.

And as for that hole, at least i'm in it for the long haul not just standing in the shadows trying to stir up controversy. And if I quit an organization I don't lye about it and tell others they forced me out!

[mzeblu]

ROFLMAO,

I was never part of that group.. I tried to be.. they had no business sense and they rejected mine.
Back when I had a desire to be part of DUSI's growth they threw out their vision and direction and decided to do what they wanted as apposed to what the membership wanted.

I simply have to laugh at them now because they have no clue.

If you are a part of the Model RR,, your head is likely ok.. but the tainted kool-aide from the DUSI board is bleeding under your doors..

Model RR guys are ok in my book.. just take whatever the DUSI board says and believe the opposite.

edit: Just re-read your post,, who forced who out.. I still have my membership and never got in to be forced out?
I jump on here when things hit the news papers to see what's going on.. sorry if I dont get online much here.. but it does not mean that I'm here to start controversy.. just stating some painful facts...

[DepotFan1982]

Professionals that can not be produced? I thought the State Archivist that spent 4 hours there was a Professional. Guess I must be drinking that Kool-aid that you cant shut up about. I guess the Sloan Museum Archive Specialist is not a professional. I guess that the Consultant that is working with the Depot that has had past clients such as Yale University, Dow Corporation, Houston Museum of Fine Arts, and has given/written over 100 presentations/publications on Archival Collections is not a professional.

Hmm, so wahat esactly are your qualifications?

Oh, and you do remember that Jean Sloan DIED right?

Oh, and being forced to resort to use the special ed kids? What is wrong with you?
Number 1, I would pick the consumers from Community Mental Health over you any day. They dont live in the past. Number 2, Those VOLUNTEERS, not forced work, love volunteering at the Depot and look forward to it and work their butts off to help in any way they can.

So lets see, oh the Attic Room, another Jean Sloan thing, and as DR mentioned, this board is still working to undo the things past boards have done. Brooks is not in charge anymore, Sloan DIED, her lapdog Boggs as you so elegantly put it in another post is no longer on the board, and the Ovid-Elsie group has left also. Hmm, seems to me like thats the group that did the attic room, not the current board, and when you have a majority of the board on the Archives commitee, of course they are going to approve something like that. Even if everyone else votes NO, it still passes.

Oh, and that room is nowhere near being over the archives room? Do you even look at the building or just open your mouth about it?

What is sad to me is someone who cant let things go from the past. What is sad is someone who only chirps in when things go wrong. What is sad is someone who states facts that are not true only to stir up a fire.

The board has not cut ties with CN, in fact they got a new grant this year from CN.

Travel Committee, hmm, those would be those unsuccessful fundaisers you talk about right? Oh, the same ones that brought in thousands of dollars for the depot? The same one whos guest list includes, donors, raffle ticket buyers, lifetime members. Guess they dont give anything to the depot, do they....

I will admit, some of the fundraisers done, do not bring in much, but they bring in people. Yeah, that does not keep the door open, but it at least shows those people that we are still fighting to keep them open. Plus, every dollar we bring in is another dollar we did not have before. Yeah, there is not alot of money at the end of 2008, but I am sure plenty of people out there have better things to do with their money at the moment, like feed their families during tough times.

Just like the new President, he is not going to change or fix everything in a few weeks, or even months. It takes time. But I guess some people just don't get that and would rather argue and complain about it.

Thank you DR for noticing the difference in things being done around the Depot.

Sd70accsxt700, if you are ever in Durand, I am sure that we would love to show you around and be able to show you tht we are doing things for change. Dont beleive everything people write. You dont even have to beleive me if you dont want to. Just make sure you are making your decision based on the right facts, the ones you have to figure out yourself to know that they are correct.

have a WONDERFUL day.

[TrainNut85]

Well said Depotfan. I just think its nice how the depot has been developed over the years, and continues to develop even more. I would like to see that attic converted into another artifact room where people can view the stuff obtained over the years. I know thats gonna take a long time but you have my full support Depotfan.

[~Z~]

Well, this thread has run it's course and then some...locked.