CSX says no!

[justalurker66]

Please describe as best you can how one walks "nervously"

Simple. Act nervous and walk. There is probably a better way to put it than calling it "walking nervously" but we don't hire police officers for literary skills. We hire them to serve and protect.

I got pulled over one night for leaving a parking lot when a police car turned in. I had visited an ATM in the parking lot and stopped at the parking lot exit after the transaction to put my card and money away. He turned in to the lot, I left, he pursued. He thought it was suspicious that I left when he arrived. I suppose we can add that to the long list of "don't do this". Don't walk away from an approaching police officer - even if you don't know he's approaching. (BTW: This was years before 9/11 so it wasn't a terrorism related thing.)

If you ACT in a suspicious manner when you see an officer said officer will begin to wonder what you are hiding. If you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. Don't waive a red flag in front of a bull ... especially a railroad bull.

[Norm]

I've only had two encounters with RR cops. One with a CN officer was pleasant. The one with an older CSX cops was not. Neither resulted in citations, but the difference of attitude was amazing. The CN cop was a good dude. The CSX cop was a man about my age and a complete rectal orifice.

As stated in a previous thread, I would like to have an encounter with the cops of the A&B. I would like to see them prove me wrong in court rather than face their harassment. I'd bet they can't prove it.

[J T]

I got pulled over one night for leaving a parking lot when a police car turned in. I had visited an ATM in the parking lot and stopped at the parking lot exit after the transaction to put my card and money away. He turned in to the lot, I left, he pursued. He thought it was suspicious that I left when he arrived.

You should have told him that YOU thought his arrival while you were leaving was suspicious behavior.

[bctrainfan]

Check out the thread "Adrian & Blissfield 9/9/11" on the Trip Reports section for related info you should all find interesting!

[hoborich]

Most of the complaints and bad experiences involve CSX cops. Maybe it's CSX stated policy of "being pro-active" that's the root cause of all the problems. I've stated before, and I maintain this attitude comes from the top. What are they afraid of? They have stated they intend to encrypt all their radio transmissions. Their own press releases indicate a level of paranoia that is unwarranted.

[AARR]

Most of the complaints and bad experiences involve CSX cops. Maybe it's CSX stated policy of "being pro-active" that's the root cause of all the problems. I've stated before, and I maintain this attitude comes from the top. What are they afraid of? They have stated they intend to encrypt all their radio transmissions. Their own press releases indicate a level of paranoia that is unwarranted.

In war one of the keys to success is taking out the enemies transportation lines. Railroads are a critical link and would be highly targeted in any country. So to some extent I understand railroads high-alert status and do not consider it paranoia.

[Loco_Engr]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22238

Yes, and the almighty Adrian & Blissfield RR is vital to our national security...

Seriously, even RailAmerica and Genesee & Wyoming - the two largest shortline holding companies in the country - don't have a police force. What about the Indiana Northeastern, a larger privately owned shortline? Nope. So what gives? Why does a very small shortline have a police force? Do the owner(s) have more money than they know what to do with? Or is it an overly inflated sense of self-worth? Or are they trying to cover something up about their operations and would prefer it not be photographed?

Food for thought.

[AARR]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22238

Yes, and the almighty Adrian & Blissfield RR is vital to our national security...

Just in case there is any confusion I am talking about Class 1's like CSX being on high alert. That is what this thread is about, or was when it started.

[Loco_Engr]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22238

Yes, and the almighty Adrian & Blissfield RR is vital to our national security...

Just in case there is any confusion I am talking about Class 1's like CSX being on high alert. That is what this thread is about, or was when it started.

I understand, AARR. All of the encounters that I've had with RR police (other than the A&B) have been what I would consider "good." FWIW, I've only ever ran into one CSX cop, and that was back in the early 2000s in Indiana. All of the NS officers I've met have been at least somewhat friendly, and the one CSX guy wanted to know if I had seen anything suspicious going on (this was a semi-popular railfan hangout at the time).

I've been asked to leave before, and did so immediately after being asked. I would have done the same with this guy from A&B as well, but was never given the opportunity.

[PAT.C]

HEY LOCO ENGR - I'LL CONTACT THE CITY OFFICES MONDAY AND TRY TO FIND OUT THE EXACT OWNER OF THE PROPERTY.
I'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT I FIND OUT.

[hoborich]

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but it can be difficult determining what is railroad property, and what is not. Obviously a train yard is railroad property. But in the Adrian case, the buildings in one of the pics are a lot closer to the tracks, than the little access road. And the little access road very well could be a power line road. Rail cops love to tell people they are on railroad property, but I'm not sure how even they would know all the railroad property lines, unless they carried a land survey of all the local areas with them.
If private buildings are located barely 10 feet from the tracks, how is anyone to know they might be on railroad property 20 or more feet from the tracks and not posted? In the Blissfield photo, the cars are parked less than 10 feet from the tracks.
If I were a judge and some railroad cop brought someone in claiming they were trespassing on unposted railroad property, within a few feet of a public road, I would ask the cop to prove it was railroad property, and provide a land survey of the area in question. The right of way of most public roads extends 15 feet or so from the edge of the pavement, to allow for road shoulders, sidewalks and sewers.
All that said, writing a trespassing ticket on someone who might be a couple feet onto unposted property, and is not interferring with railroad operations is just plain crap.

[justalurker66]

Yes, and the almighty Adrian & Blissfield RR is vital to our national security...

Everybody does their part. They have their little part of the world to watch over and they are doing it.

Based on that one picture of the officer helping with switching it appears the role may be more than just "sitting in a patrol car" ... which would make it easier to afford.

[bctrainfan]

From interesting link to petapixel.com given earlier by Pat C., I followed another link to the ACLU webpage that outlines legal rights of photographers, here is the main portion of it that I thought railfans might learn from:


Taking photographs of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is a constitutional right – and that includes federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police and other government officials carrying out their duties. Unfortunately, there is a widespread, continuing pattern of law enforcement officers ordering people to stop taking photographs from public places, and harassing, detaining and arresting those who fail to comply.


Your rights as a photographer:

When in public spaces where you are lawfully present you have the right to photograph anything that is in plain view. That includes pictures of federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police. Such photography is a form of public oversight over the government and is important in a free society.

When you are on private property, the property owner may set rules about the taking of photographs. If you disobey the property owner's rules, they can order you off their property (and have you arrested for trespassing if you do not comply).

Police officers may not generally confiscate or demand to view your photographs or video without a warrant. If you are arrested, the contents of your phone may be scrutinized by the police, although their constitutional power to do so remains unsettled. In addition, it is possible that courts may approve the seizure of a camera in some circumstances if police have a reasonable, good-faith belief that it contains evidence of a crime by someone other than the police themselves (it is unsettled whether they still need a warrant to view them).

Police may not delete your photographs or video under any circumstances.

Police officers may legitimately order citizens to cease activities that are truly interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations. Professional officers, however, realize that such operations are subject to public scrutiny, including by citizens photographing them.

Note that the right to photograph does not give you a right to break any other laws. For example, if you are trespassing to take photographs, you may still be charged with trespass.

If you are stopped or detained for taking photographs:

Always remain polite and never physically resist a police officer.
If stopped for photography, the right question to ask is, "am I free to go?" If the officer says no, then you are being detained, something that under the law an officer cannot do without reasonable suspicion that you have or are about to commit a crime or are in the process of doing so. Until you ask to leave, your being stopped is considered voluntary under the law and is legal.
If you are detained, politely ask what crime you are suspected of committing, and remind the officer that taking photographs is your right under the First Amendment and does not constitute reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.


Though not a big ACLU fan, they do have some good info on their site http://www.aclu.org

[MNE Mec]

Sorry Loco_Engr that road is on railroad property, after working there for four years i saw plenty of maps of how that area used to be. There was a large yard and shop, even the scrap yard was part of the yard at one time.

[Clay320]

Sorry Loco_Engr that road is on railroad property, after working there for four years i saw plenty of maps of how that area used to be. There was a large yard and shop, even the scrap yard was part of the yard at one time.

True there once was something like a 3 track by 1 track diamond, with the LS&MS having the 3 and the Wabash having 1. There was a 6-7ish track yard that took up the whole spot where the scrap yard is and more. Plus there was a ton of spurs around there. So even though most of the tracks are gone the RR may still own land far from their current ROW

Map, Adrian in 1893
http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... 50+and+51/

[PAT.C]

---THE ROAD IN QUESTION IS ON RAILROAD PROPERTY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!---------

I SPOKE WITH THE ADRIAN CITY ENG. AND ASSESSOR TO CONFIRM.

---A WARNING TO ALL-----
STAY OFF ADBF PROPERTY ---THEIR COPS WILL MAKE YOUR DAY MISERABLE AND ENJOY DOING SO.

LOCO ENG - YOU HAVE A PM FROM RAILDUDES DAD AND ME . CALL ME FOR MORE INFO I DON'T WANT TO POST HERE.


ATTN. HOBORICH - I DO WHAT I SAY . WE ARE STILL WAITING [ALMOST A YEAR ] FOR YOUR REPORT. :

CALL CSX AT 800-232-0144 PRESS #1 AND ASK FOR THE CSX POLICE SUPERINTENDENT FOR THE GREAT LAKES REGION.
I SPOKE WITH HIM 3 WEEKS AGO.HE AND HIS OFFICERS ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS SITE.
THEY MAY EVEN KNOW YOU.

[hoborich]

ATTN. HOBORICH - I DO WHAT I SAY . WE ARE STILL WAITING [ALMOST A YEAR ] FOR YOUR REPORT. :

CALL CSX AT 800-232-0144 PRESS #1 AND ASK FOR THE CSX POLICE SUPERINTENDENT FOR THE GREAT LAKES REGION.
I SPOKE WITH HIM 3 WEEKS AGO.HE AND HIS OFFICERS ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS SITE.
THEY MAY EVEN KNOW YOU.

What the hell does all this shouting in caps mean. I told you I didn't have all the info I needed! Go take a flying leap!!!!!!
So what if they may know me. What is that comment intended to imply. Am I supposed to be intimidated?
Stick to your "pull my finger' jokes!!!!!!

STAY OFF ADBF PROPERTY ---THEIR COPS WILL MAKE YOUR DAY MISERABLE AND ENJOY DOING SO.

Sounds like power tripping morons to me! They obviously have a lot to learn about public relations!

[Typhoon]

[ATTN. HOBORICH - I DO WHAT I SAY . WE ARE STILL WAITING [ALMOST A YEAR ] FOR YOUR REPORT. :

I think you will be waiting for some time to come......There was a very serious actuation thrown out on this board, a police officer drawing his weapon unprovoked, that is not something to sneeze at. The fact that it has been this many months since the alleged incident, and people are still "don't have the information needed" says a lot about the allegation.
To quote a song from my youth, Things that make you go hmmmm.

[trnwatcher]

Here's a link that we will be passing around to members of the Muskegon Railroad Historical Society.
http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/know-yo ... tographers

[hoborich]

I talked to Charlie X90 the other night. He confirmed that a CSX officer named Ortiz pulled a gun on him at Delray, and made him delete his photos, including photos taken the day before at another location. The guy who was with him at the time confirmed it. The guy who was with him at the time was sitting in the car, watching the whole thing go down, as Ortiz had Charlie with his hands spread on the hood of his cop car and his gun out. Apparently no one has seen this Ortiz guy in recent months. He told Charlie he had to be tough to work in Delray. Now, where do we go from here?

To quote a song from my youth, Things that make you go hmmmm.

To quote an old saying,"Where there's smoke, there's fire". Judging by the number of posters having negative experiences with rail cops, there more than likely is a problem.