CP TRAINS

[CSX_CO]

Matt, if CSX wants to get rid of the lines so badly, why don't they give it all to CP? CSX wants to leave the line across Michigan, CP wants a line across Michigan, we have a solution!

Again, for TWENTY YEARS CSX has been looking to sell the line to CP. FOR TWENTY YEARS CP has NOT been interested in owning the line. Why would they suddenly change their tune now? Especially in light of the current credit situation and economic prospects in Michigan?

I don't get where you think the CP wants to actually own a line across Michigan? They've had that option FOR TWENTY YEARS and are not interested. If they were, don't you think they would have done it by now? Especially when CSX was actively shopping so much track about 5 years ago (Fort Wayne Line, Buckingham Branch, etc)?

CP has been willing to put up with the 'beatings' they may take moving their traffic across Michigan either via the NS, CSX, or CN. Out of those options, CSX probably gave them the best treatment, because CP was about the only thing on the CSX across Michigan. They got royally hosed on the former GTW every day, and I'm sure the NS treatment isn't much better. CSX gets hosed at Porter, IN because they need to navigate the NS to get back to either the BRC or CSX rails at Curtis. This same bottle neck will exist for CP, except for one big difference, CP won't have any leverage with the NS. CSX needed a train moved, and NS wouldn't do it, then CSX holds up a NS move somewhere in the city.

"You want to run a train via the Porter Branch to the IHB? Naw, not until you move that X500 for us."

"You've got a van train to get across at 75th St to Landers? I dunno, I've got a big old hopper train I really need to move down to Barr because I have a window since you aren't taking that Q326 there at E. Curtis. Going to be quite a while getting across the diamond. You'll take Q326? As soon as you line him up at Curtis, I'll get that van train lined up."

So, ask yourself, why would CP want to buy a cow, when they get their milk for free? Their trains get moved, if they don't care how fast they get there, then they'll stick with what they have.

Practice Safe CSX

[gridejq]

I think you guys should just get a room and hug

[gridejq]

Russ-

In all fairness to the CP wanting the line now....it has "ACTUALLY" been discussed now in Canada by management...I can validate that...not saying that they will get the line but this is only the 2nd time that "ACTUALLY" have shown string interest in the line and they do have a BIGGER problem with the NS now then they did with the CSX...MAtt is correct in the aspect of running CP trains on CSX trackage while they still own it but if the opp comes to get the line this year....it may happen...another management meeting is being held during the 2nd week of March to discuss this issue and others....


As for the X500 with the ETHANOL traffic.....Chris is off on this and I was the one who saw the train...it was a WINDSOR block from Bensenville that originated on the ICE and DME in MN and the Dakotas....X500 is handling more of a mix as Windsor Yard has changed their switching operations and to help with Toronto blockings...

[AARR]

I think you guys should just get a room and hug

Ahhh, that's so sweet

[Racer]

Moderator Edit: Straying a bit too far off topic here. Lets stay away from personal insults as well.

[soo6009]

Cp Rail does have some leverage on NS. NS has run though trains on CP rails line from sunbury PA to the north east( old D&H) that is what started the cp rail trains running from michigan on ns is that cp rail lets ns run on the old D&H.
as for CP rail buying the detroit division. lets not speculate and see if it happens it has been a rummer for years when i used to railfan holland michigan.

[CSX_CO]

Russ-

In all fairness to the CP wanting the line now....it has "ACTUALLY" been discussed now in Canada by management...I can validate that...not saying that they will get the line but this is only the 2nd time that "ACTUALLY" have shown string interest in the line and they do have a BIGGER problem with the NS now then they did with the CSX.

Its probably been 'discussed' in Canada by Management for 20 years now. Words and action are two different things.

CSX isn't shopping track nearly as much now. CP had their opportunity to get it when CSX was desperate. With the balance sheets on firmer territory, the asking price is going to go way up. With CP just purchasing the ICE, and their eyes set on Powder River Coal, purchasing a line in Michigan doesn't seem like a big priority.

Talk is B&OCT limits will go out to Porter or Benton Harbor, and down to Dyer on the Monon. That will end the expense of recrews out of GR and Lafayette for trains and allow terminal transfer crews to do the work instead. That means Indy to Chicago with 1 crew. I doubt you could make Detroit to Porter via GR in one crew, but they may try it?

Practice Safe CSX

[RailCanon]

Go speak to Gregg, he was talking about that it lasted for about 6 months. I'm saying what I've heard, that's why I said "I believe" because I wasn't sure. EPIC FAIL for you not reading carefully.

I can't recall that I ever said six months. The other guys are right, X534 and X535 (which carried CN symbols H53491 and H53531, later T53491 and T53531) operated on the GTW for about five years. The last trains ran across the Trunk on October 30, 2005. The following week, X534 went to the NS, while 535 transfered back to CSX for about a week and a half.
I could always count on seeing X534 whenever I railfanned the GTW. It didn't matter where I was sitting or what time it was; the train always showed up for me, including when I was just on a walk on October 29, 2005, when I took my very last photo of the train.

[redside20]

Go speak to Gregg, he was talking about that it lasted for about 6 months. I'm saying what I've heard, that's why I said "I believe" because I wasn't sure. EPIC FAIL for you not reading carefully.

I can't recall that I ever said six months. The other guys are right, X534 and X535 (which carried CN symbols H53491 and H53531, later T53491 and T53531) operated on the GTW for about five years. The last trains ran across the Trunk on October 30, 2005. The following week, X534 went to the NS, while 535 transfered back to CSX for about a week and a half.
I could always count on seeing X534 whenever I railfanned the GTW. It didn't matter where I was sitting or what time it was; the train always showed up for me, including when I was just on a walk on October 29, 2005, when I took my very last photo of the train.

didn't CP run more than two sets of trains on the GTW?

[sd70accsxt700]

They didnt even run two sets of trains it was just one set 535-534

[GrandTrunkFan]

I remember going to Durand my first time and the first train I seen was the CP train. I commented to the railfan standing next to me that I came here to see something different than CP. Typical case of taking something for granted. Oh well, hopefully the future looks red around here.

[CP Condictator]

Sorry guys but this thread is a bunch of gibberish.

CP is not looking at buying a line through Michigan. As much as you guys would love to cream yer pants to CP on their own tracks through your state, it isn't going to happen. Their focus is not on that part of the country especially with traffic has been lately. Another solid case of how you easterners always think you are the center of the world and everybody's attention. (Not everybody I know)

Who knows. Someday this may become true when the economy comes out of the hellhole it's in right now otherwise you can dismiss the topic and all the rumors along with it.

Have a great afternoon. I got a train to catch.

-Steve

[sd70accsxt700]

I think the name says it all, and obviously he cant read either, as I I also said it was not going to happen. Must be the westerner in him that made him miss that.

[CERY]

I think that I will take Doc's word over that of the CP Condictator.

[SD80MAC]

To quote the great Doctor, "Ve shall see".

[gridejq]

Its funny how these posts become a "I told you" or "its not going to happen"......WOW....I can say that too fact of the matter is...NOBODY KNOWS until it happens hence its called a rumor.....just like the CN and EJE? First it was yeah its going to happen and then no and yeah and so on.....like I said in my original post....there is "serious" talk about the CP now with the way things are..not saying its going to happen but look at the NS-CN deal that just took place in TN and IL....railroads are trying to work out deals while things are in the dumper...yeah I know Russ you work for CSX and so does Matt...and CP conductor...ok but like all things...you guys are the last to know a change is coming...its like that in any business....management above TM and so forth are told things that dont even get to the TM or YM in a timely manner.....I personally know the person who is responsible for train operations/blockings and all that logistical crap for CP Great Lakes....he is very close with 2 or 3 Toronto area Super's and they have been more conference calls then normal the last few months...trying to work out a scratch my back and ill scratch yours deal....I post on here to give people info that is stats or "rumors" that have some truth to them in some way or form....I like how some people on here think that because they work for the railroad that they are "better" or "know" it all and down others for it.....yeah who cares if you knock somebody and be joking about it but really what makes anyone on this board better then the next??? Believe what you want about the CP and its priorities but look at the big picture not just the tomorrow...........

[Stitch]

While this would be great, CP trains on CSX, I will be on the sidelines hoping but not waiting for it to happen. An west bound CP train is just something dreams are made of

[geeps]

Go speak to Gregg, he was talking about that it lasted for about 6 months. I'm saying what I've heard, that's why I said "I believe" because I wasn't sure. EPIC FAIL for you not reading carefully.

3rd stage of denial..... anger lmao

[CSX_CO]

The B&OCT will not and cannot come upon our territtory without an agreemnt to do so from the unions.

Terminal limits on the B&OCT already extend to Willow Creek and CT crews can go out to Suman to pick up a train if needed. Limits were changed/forced back in 200/2001 to allow B&OCT crews to go out to Curtis to handle the interchange with the EJE and service a gravel company on the Porter Branch. Allowed Yard crews to do it out of Barr, instead of a Garrett crew going out to Curtis and back in. Company gets what the Company wants. FYI, that allows terminal crews to go out to Porter, and a certain mileage out past that. Willow Creek to Suman is 9 miles, so I believe the limits go 9 miles past the furthest point?

As far as NS and CN 'working' together, CSX and CN have been interchanging trains/cars at Effingham for years. CN and NS USED to do it at Tolono after Split Date, but stopped. CN goes back and forth with their interchange agreements. One quarter they want it in Chicago, the next anywhere but Chicago.

As far as CN and EJE, CSX had plans on the table to purchase the EJE back when the Conrail Split happened. Studies were done, and negotiations were in progress when CSX walked away from the table. They realized they had their hands full with Conrail, and couldn't afford another aquisition. I know the guy who was in charge of the dealings, and to this day he doesn't know exactly why the process was stopped. He was just told from up high to stop talking with the EJE.

Practice Safe CSX

[CSX_CO]

The UTU agreement lets yard crews go 25 miles outside their terminal limits to do things like pick up dead trains, service NEW customers. I would be more inclined to do the New Buffalo thing again should business ever recover to anywhere near previous levels. Now if and when they do recover (and they will) will B&OCT Barr have that many souls to spare running around hither and yon chasing trains? Doubt it very much. We already have the crews in place and qualified all over Chicago.

They'll reroute everything they can around GR to Toledo (Detroit *stuff*) for classification, put the road crews on at E. Curtis, and run to N. Baltimore, Toledo, Columbus, Lima, Willard, etc. with one crew. Garrett will be eliminated save for 1 or 2 locals. Dyer to Indy with one crew towards the south.

Of course, if all your 'rumors' hold true, CP will have the line through GR, so being qualified to Porter and Michigan City wouldn't be an issue for CSX, it would be CP's problem.

As far as getting 'everyone' qualified in Chiago out to Willow Creek, you wouldn't have to. Have 10 transfer crews (or whatever), that they already have, qualified out there, and you wouldn't need to have 'everyone' qualified to Willow Creek. Have new hire trainee's train on those jobs, and through attrition you'll have enough qualified employee's. Barr Yard has the furloughed employee's right now to do it, just a matter of 'when' they want to. The changes to "The One Plan" (I didn't know we were still doing that?) will have trains being consolidated and the amount of 'work' enroute will be rationalized. I think we've only just begun to see the cuts in the works.

Garrett crews used to be qualfied most places in the city, but with the IP Pool out of Willard getting most of the trains now, the Garrett crews aren't qualified to nearly as many places as they used to be. As for me, I'm qualified from St. Louis to Crestline, OH. About a 20 mile gap, and I could probably still get to Cleveland from Greenwich. Now going back to Willard from Avon, and I could probably get to Chicago again if I absolutely needed to.

Practice Safe CSX