Ann Arbor Railway - Rail America

[AARR]

There are now many efforts to capture natural gas in the Marcellus field that lies under much of Pennsylvania and western New York. To get that gas to the surface, I infer than much fracting sand is needed. The Ann Arbor is now shipping sand to that area. If the exploration of natural gas continues, will there be a very substantial increase in the shipments of sand on the Ann Arbor?
I wonder how the administrators of Rail America feel about the propsoed Wally commuter train? Does Rail America current operate any regularly scheduled passenger trains?

My understanding is Wally commuter train is dead. Did not receive funding. Can anyone confirm this? I would imagine, perhaps mistakenly, that RA would be on top of this issue.

Frac sand is running from Yuma to Toledo involving GLC/AA. I get conflicting reports that sand traffic (both casting and frac) is great then I hear it's not as great as projected. If things are great both casting and frac sand should be over 300,000 tons this year each (over 3,000 cars each). If things aren't so great I don't know how much less the volumes would be

[midland sub]

Assuming RA indeed takes over the AA next week, don't look for any sudden changes. RA moves at glacier speed at making changes. It took over five years for RA to make planned changes to the IORY and 6 years to do a planned track project. Other than maybe RA swapping AA power for IORY or HESR, I doubt anything changes for quite some time.

[ConrailMan5]

maybe if they could get the automotive plant in saline to ship by rail again, the annie might have a reason to put the interchange with the NS dearborn division, that would be kinda nice

on a side note, anyone ever see the annarbor geeps travel on any other lines besides our own, I've always wanted to see the orange annie behind a priority intermodal train.

[AARR]

maybe if they could get the automotive plant in saline to ship by rail again, the annie might have a reason to put the interchange with the NS dearborn division, that would be kinda nice

on a side note, anyone ever see the annarbor geeps travel on any other lines besides our own, I've always wanted to see the orange annie behind a priority intermodal train.

I don't think we'll ever see the interchange between AA and NS in Ann Arbor reconnected. First of all the city would fight it tooth and nail. Secondly, interchange is much more effecient in Milan and Toledo.

I'm not aware of AA's GP38's or the newer 39-2's ever venturing off AA property after their acquisition by AA. On the other hand, the old AARR's GP35's did make a few trips to Cleveland with unit sand trains for the Ford engine plant.

[Tim]

I can recall the AA GP-35's coming into Lansing northbound on a Conrail freight not long after the merger.

[MSchwiebert]

"Back in the day" one could have seen the DT&I "Railblazer" trains for orange units on a TOFC train - even if the Annie does end up in the RA camp - other than the FEC I can't think of another RA road that has any intermodal business.

[chapmaja]

I think there are two possibilities for the Interchange track in AA between the AA and NS to be reconnected.

First and in my opinion most likely is if the WALLY and the new commuter service in the AA area with the new station does start up, I think the connection will be replaced for that service to the new traffic center being planned.

Second, and in my opinion less likely is if NS finally gives up on service west of Wayne. If RA does pick up the AA, then you might see RA make a play for the Wayne to Kalamazoo segement of trackage, plus the service west of Kalamazoo. I think if RA did ever get this line, the prefered route would be down the AA to NS at Toledo rather than to Wayne then across and down.

I don't think either option is real likely but I'm not going to say never on that track being reinstalled.

[midland sub]

Depends on what one considers intermodal. I think both the NECR and Arizona & California move some TOFC/COFC from time to time. The Puget Sound & Pacific and the South Carolina Central both receive unit trash trains in COFC.
The I&O will be in the intermodal business when Bluegrass Farms starts shipping containers of soybeans, corn and DDG next summer. Might be an orange Annie unit on the I&O by then......

"Back in the day" one could have seen the DT&I "Railblazer" trains for orange units on a TOFC train - even if the Annie does end up in the RA camp - other than the FEC I can't think of another RA road that has any intermodal business.

[JANGAJONGA]

I think there are two possibilities for the Interchange track in AA between the AA and NS to be reconnected.

First and in my opinion most likely is if the WALLY and the new commuter service in the AA area with the new station does start up, I think the connection will be replaced for that service to the new traffic center being planned.

Second, and in my opinion less likely is if NS finally gives up on service west of Wayne. If RA does pick up the AA, then you might see RA make a play for the Wayne to Kalamazoo segement of trackage, plus the service west of Kalamazoo. I think if RA did ever get this line, the prefered route would be down the AA to NS at Toledo rather than to Wayne then across and down.

I don't think either option is real likely but I'm not going to say never on that track being reinstalled.

I really do not see this happening. they would have to completely re-do the whole connection track. would cost so much money and clog up and already really clogged north main.

[chapmaja]

(admin edit - merged this post into the existing AA - Railamerica thread)

It appears the AA will be joining the RailAmerica fold soon.

The question is what affect this will have on operations.

I see three potential options.

First, the HESR takes over operations of the AA and gains trackage rights over the GLC from Durand to Ann Arbor.

Second, the IORY takes over the AA. This would give the IORY direct access to Toledo and give the AA customers access to the western roads via the CF&E.

Third, the AA is still operated as an independant railroad with access not changing.


I think the long running plan for the entire complex of railroads might be to get the GLC into the fold as well. Durand would then become the main
Michigan yard for the RA railroads. Traffic from Toledo (WLE, CSX and NS) and the IORY could then be sorted in Durand for either thumb area destinations
or Central Michigan locations. Southbound traffic could then be sorted in Durand as well for CSX, WLE and NS.

Ottawa Yard in Toledo could then be used just for interchange traffic with the 3 railroads in Toledo (WLE, NS, CSX) and servicing local customers.

The railroad yard in Owosso would still could be used for the shops plus it could be used for servicing the local customers in the area.

Another railroad that could be affected by this is the MMRR. From what I understand it is easier to run trains west on the MMRR than it is to
Paines. The MMRR might start running their traffic based off the Alma connection rather than the Paines connection (subject to agreements with SBS).


I think the end result if they get the GLC into the fold as well would be a much better and more streamlined level of service to customers which
would result in possible increases in traffic along the railroads of Michigan.


If the AA, GLC, MMRR and HESR were all combined into one company I could see other rail movements possibly developing as a result.

1) Scrap metal traffic. I could see scrap metal traffic from TC again. If the traffic could follow a single routing rather than multiple railraods
I could see the cost being lower and thus more competitive with trucks.

2) Traffic to and from the Ethanol Plant in Blissfield (via the ADBF). The routing would be ADBF to the IORY then to Toledo.

[TrainWatcher]

The problems I have with the connection track at AA between the NS Michigan Line and the Annie are:

1. Too Steep. If you look at the layout of the old connection, it was quite steep. All it takes is one car failure or something get away and derail or crunch something, and it could get quite a velocity, and could pose a safety issue for residents (as it is a residential area)

2. Not designed for 6 axles. With the dawn of 6 axles EMD's and GE's (especially on NS), I think it would be impractical to try to use 3 GP38-2's to haul the interchange traffic UP the connection, and my thoughts are that a 6 axle wouldn't make the tight radii.

[JANGAJONGA]

If they GLC and AA come into the mix i could see unit grains from mid michigan flying down the mainline to toldeo. that would be cool!

[OwlCaboose2853]

The problems I have with the connection track at AA between the NS Michigan Line and the Annie are:

1. Too Steep. If you look at the layout of the old connection, it was quite steep. All it takes is one car failure or something get away and derail or crunch something, and it could get quite a velocity, and could pose a safety issue for residents (as it is a residential area)

2. Not designed for 6 axles. With the dawn of 6 axles EMD's and GE's (especially on NS), I think it would be impractical to try to use 3 GP38-2's to haul the interchange traffic UP the connection, and my thoughts are that a 6 axle wouldn't make the tight radii.

Number 1 and 2, really not hard problem, they can do that motives steeps. Ann Arbor engine did carried 89' hi cube to steep to West Ann Arbor Yard from W. Summit Ave Switch. You will find out (You will watch PC DVD http://www.greenfrog.com/penncentral5DVD.shtml about Ypsilatni and Ann Arbor RR at 4:32 to 7:00 (3:32 minutes).

New A-1-A steerable truck for sharp curve, they can use on AARR.
CSX has a A-1-A steerable truck.

[jukeman45]

Does anyone think that CN will have something to say about a Durand to Toledo HESR Connection?

[AARR]

Does anyone think that CN will have something to say about a Durand to Toledo HESR Connection?

They might but I don't think much traffic from GLC / HESR runs south on CN so I'm not sure if they'd care unless there's something I'm not aware of Most traffic between CN - GLC/HESR goes east/west IIRC.

[midland sub]

RA isn't shy about using six axle power on poorly maintained trackage, sharp curves or not. A-1-A trucks would require RA to purchase new locos......

Number 1 and 2, really not hard problem, they can do that motives steeps. Ann Arbor engine did carried 89' hi cube to steep to West Ann Arbor Yard from W. Summit Ave Switch. You will find out (You will watch PC DVD http://www.greenfrog.com/penncentral5DVD.shtml about Ypsilatni and Ann Arbor RR at 4:32 to 7:00 (3:32 minutes).

New A-1-A steerable truck for sharp curve, they can use on AARR.
CSX has a A-1-A steerable truck.

[sd70accsxt700]

The only A-1-A new trucks out there are the new ES44C4,s that BNSF have. All other sterable truks are traditonal 6 axle trucks with three tracton motors a truck. And really they would not need them, there are all sorts of SD40-2s opperating on tight curves.

[chapmaja]

Does anyone think that CN will have something to say about a Durand to Toledo HESR Connection?

I'm not really sure CN would have any say in the matter. if they did. The CMGN purchased the trackage from Durond north and west from GT, they didn't lease it so the lease restrictions commonly seen likely would not be in place.

From what I understand there is already some traffic going HESR-GLC-AA-NS anyway.

The trackage rights the GLC uses from Durand south are pretty much set in stone based on the agreement from the 1970's which lead to the removal of the AA trackage between Pitt Jct and San Yard. I don't think there would be any way in heck that the STB would allow CN to pull those trackage rights.

Actually I think CN might prefer to have a a single railroad running Durand to Toledo. That might allow them to get more competitive rates on shipments to potential customers on the line than they would have if it was a customer located somewhere else.

Any traffic that would be interchanged between the AA and CN in Toledo (which I think is rare anyway) could now be routed north to durand and then east or West on CN from Durand. If it was interchanged in Toledo it likely would have to come north anyway to go the same direction, which possibly could take longer as well.

[OwlCaboose2853]

RA isn't shy about using six axle power on poorly maintained trackage, sharp curves or not. A-1-A trucks would require RA to purchase new locos......

Pittsfield Junction has a sharp curve http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... MI%2048108. Will RA move to very tight with 6 axles power at there? Ann Arbor engines have using B+B truck powers only.

[JANGAJONGA]

Thanks for the link owl!
Boy, i wish i could have seen the Ann Arbor railroad scene back in the 1970s double track michigan line the ann arbor was busy with the yard still open that would have been so cool.