Alcos

[12Bridge]

MLW has been gone for over 20 years. Fairbanks-Morse/EnPro makes the 251 and its parts. You can get all brandy new stuff for them still. Not counting the plenty of aftermarket companys that make parts. Same goes for the electrical end. You can still get anything fixed and made, It all boils down to who you know and where to look.

[LSRC]

The 2003 was just rebuilt and repainted only a couple years ago. It must be maintenance nightmare or the railroad wants to only stick with the GP40s. Ive never heard anything positive about the 371 either.

From what I've heard, the 2003 came back from Western Rail and pulled even worse then when it went out.

John Rickoff said at the Bluewater meeting said that the reason for change is standardization. They're plenty of GP40s out there to rob of parts if they need to.

Hard to find parts? Do you work on these for a living? Because I beg to differ.

Dude, chill. There arn't exactly tons of Alcos left. While there are parts out there, there's not a factory cranking out parts for these things. The fact is, it's easier to buy parts for a standard fleet of GP40s than it is to buy parts for 1950s Alcos. You CAN buy the parts, it's just a hassle. Plus, these units are very, very worn and have led a full life. Maintenance isn't cheap.

I've also THEORIZED that the previous administration was pushing to purge the roster of Alcos permanently after the whole Grayling fire incident.

One comment that I would like to make is that this is the most defeatist group of railfans that I have ever encountered. Some of you sound as if you would offer to cut these units up for the owners if they don't do it themselves.

Really? Nobody here is screaming "Hey Lake State, scrap these Alcos." I'd personally love to see these saved, but honestly it's honestly inevitable. Nobody has stepped forth since 2005, and I doubt that anybody will. You can't save everything, so cherish the memories that you have.

[willardgarrett]

HEY LAKE STATE, SCRAP THESE ALCO'S
If we saved every item ever used, we would be buried in trash.

[wawatam]

For anyone that's interested, there is two pictures of 975 loading the Chief Wawatam on the boatnerd site on the historical perspectives page of the Chief. (page 3) There is also another engine on the siding that I don't recognize but I,m sure many of you do.

[AARR]

Since 466 was the first RS2 built that's the one I'd like saved

[Robert MacDowell]

One comment that I would like to make is that this is the most defeatist group of railfans that I have ever encountered. Some of you sound as if you would offer to cut these units up for the owners if they don't do it themselves. Its one thing to not have the ability or desire to preserve historic equipment, but to openly advocate its destruction is another matter.

No kidding. I was reading this thread and going "Gee, which of you is bringing the oxygen and which the acetylene?"

And all due respect I wonder where on earth that attitude comes from. Is it narrow-minded foamerism "the only thing that matters is what I can chase"? Is it hang-dog defeatism that has festered to the point of rationalization "since the bad is inevitable, let's call it 'good' so it feels better"? Or is it just being underinformed of just what a decent railway museum can do?

Just for the record... here's what a railway museum can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhxbl9aCIO4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwSvLkgsmfg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9ulzh0O0V8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfx3D3dDE3k

And here's HOW we do it...
http://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/
http://sn1005.blogspot.com/

... and it's FUN. And free. And a resume-builder. And fun!

It would certainly be understandable if Michigan railfans didn't "get it". There aren't any decent, generalist railway museums in the state. There are, however, some excellent specialists, 1225, Huckleberry, Henry Ford... well, put it to you this way. Imagine if folks like that preserved a wide variety of stuff... stuff you like... stuff you chased back when.

[Clay320]

IMHO, its not that posters here don't care. Its the fact that 90% of the people here are not with a preservation group like on RYPN and have no means what so ever to affect what happens to these alcos. Its a case of "we would if we could, but we can't."

I really hope a group does get a hold of them because that's the only way they're going to get saved. However I think the chance of that happening before the owner gives up and scraps them in slimmer than some would want to admit.

I want to see them saved, but I(and most everyone here) don't have the resources to do it and no one else is stepping up.

[12Bridge]

Hard to find parts? Do you work on these for a living? Because I beg to differ.

Dude, chill. There aren't exactly tons of Alcos left. While there are parts out there, there's not a factory cranking out parts for these things. The fact is, it's easier to buy parts for a standard fleet of GP40s than it is to buy parts for 1950s Alcos. You CAN buy the parts, it's just a hassle. Plus, these units are very, very worn and have led a full life. Maintenance isn't cheap.

I've also THEORIZED that the previous administration was pushing to purge the roster of Alcos permanently after the whole Grayling fire incident.

Yes, there is still a factory making parts. Fairbanks-Morse. Theres still plenty of places making other parts . This goes for everything short of maybe Winton power. Theres tons of places that still use all this equipment other then railroads, and im not talking about just the engines. Plenty of people know how to handle the work to. I think the simple reason for them purging the roster is part standardization. When you have one builder over take the other, nobody wants to stock parts for two different animals, same reason the bigger RRs got rid of them. You are right, I am sure they are tired and need love by no, no question, but theres still plenty of support out there for them. Not even going to touch the argument about saving them, others are doing a good job at that.

[AARR]

IIRC the new maintenance supervisor may have had some input on the all EMD roster

[conrailmike]

One comment that I would like to make is that this is the most defeatist group of railfans that I have ever encountered. Some of you sound as if you would offer to cut these units up for the owners if they don't do it themselves. Its one thing to not have the ability or desire to preserve historic equipment, but to openly advocate its destruction is another matter.

One comment I'm going to make right here is that you sir are wrong. You don't know any of us from Adam so how do you know we are a "defeatist group of railfans"? It appears that you are new here so I would suggest to you that you get to know us here at Railroadfan before accusing us of such things.

Most of us on this board live here in Michigan which at the moment has the worst economy in the country. We have NO money. Believe me when I say that a lot of us would like to see lots of these units saved and put into a museum of some sort but there is a time when we have to look at the reality of such an undertaking as this and the reality of just moving on.

[TrainWatcher]

One comment that I would like to make is that this is the most defeatist group of railfans that I have ever encountered. Some of you sound as if you would offer to cut these units up for the owners if they don't do it themselves. Its one thing to not have the ability or desire to preserve historic equipment, but to openly advocate its destruction is another matter.

One comment I'm going to make right here is that you sir are wrong. You don't know any of us from Adam so how do you know we are a "defeatist group of railfans"? It appears that you are new here so I would suggest to you that you get to know us here at Railroadfan before accusing us of such things.

Most of us on this board live here in Michigan which at the moment has the worst economy in the country. We have NO money. Believe me when I say that a lot of us would like to see lots of these units saved and put into a museum of some sort but there is a time when we have to look at the reality of such an undertaking as this and the reality of just moving on.

Amen brother Amen!

I did not know FM was still in the railroad parts business. Very interesting detail.

[SW]

One comment I'm going to make right here is that you sir are wrong. You don't know any of us from Adam so how do you know we are a "defeatist group of railfans"? It appears that you are new here so I would suggest to you that you get to know us here at Railroadfan before accusing us of such things.

Agreed. Any line abandoned, any engine or piece of rolling stock that is scrapped is noted and usually lamented on this board. Sometimes miracles happen and something get saved, or at least a temporary reprieve and we rejoice. Several members of this board work as volunteers for entities such as Southern Michigan Railroad Society, Michigan Steam Railroading Institute, Coopersville & Marne Railway, and several other rail lines and museums around the state. And we all support them. Calling us defeatist is uncalled for and inappropriate.

[PAT.C]

A VERY GOOD AND APPROPRIATE RESPONSE BY SW AND CONRAILMIKE.

[Clay320]

Ok, lets try to see what we can do here. Does anyone have any contact info for getting 974, 975, and 469? Phone number, e-mail? Does this Waymore place have a website? Did any prices get put out?

I guess we have to establish these things before we go any farther.

[TrainWatcher]

Here is Waymore's website, and just out of curiosity I sent them an e-mail regarding the LSRC Alcos. Still waiting on a responce which I expect Monday. Also people have mentioned that the rest of the Alcos are also for sale. Does anyone have a name of a site? I have checked the major ones like Ozark Mountain and DF Barnhardt.

http://www.waymorepower.com/

[Sppengelly]

I have recently been in close contact with people from the Waymore Power Company. Like I said earlier, they have a window open until Dec 23 to find an organization who would either 1) be willing to buy a locomotive for scrap value which is approx. $30,000 or 2) find a temporary, free-of-storage-cost location near by to the Saginaw yard to store them until they find a permenant home. The organization I belong with has put forth interset in both ideas but, obviously, money is a huge problem. Waymore Power is, from what they have somewhat told me, is not really intersested in donating.

I hope that either my organization or another can save atleast one of either the 469, 974 or 975 but if LSRC holds on to the ALCO equiptment they have for sometime, a C425 may not be out of the question.

[etmccaus]

I wouldn't so much as say that the younger generation doesn't "get" it as the problem. I'm 24, love Alcos, and I've actively tried to save some vintage transit equipment in the past (mainly buses), but the purchase cost, maintenance costs, insurance costs, storage costs, and fuel costs make such an activity virtually impossible for me.

I can only imagine the costs to do the same for a locomotive are even more prohibitive. $30k outright, not to mention the cost of hauling and moving the beast somewhere? That same sum appears to also buy a clean, operable example of a much more obscure Alco product.

http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/alcomrs1-244.htm

Heck, you can't even *use* a locomotive anywhere as much as you can a bus/truck/other vehicular moneypits. Makes the investment more than a little difficult to swallow.

I think rather than launching attacks on railfans for not wanting to save this, perhaps your time is better spent petitioning those who (a. own the locomotive or (b. those who already have the means/space/etc. to preserve it to get up and do something. I'm sure that's already been done, but it's a little extreme any one of us, or even a ragtag group of members on this board, could just step in and save this Alco. 1225 is an exception, certainly, but from what I recall, it had some pretty extraordinary steps (i.e. donation, tolerant university presidents, etc.) along the way that helped keep it from the scrapper's torch. It's more than a bit unrealistic to think we can just muster up a similar save, especially in this short window of time.

In the mean time, I'll try to preserve history the best way I can: stories, photographs, video, historical records, etc.

-Evan

[Sppengelly]

That is true. Not all younger people enjoy the modern railroad world. I do love progress and invoation but the railroad history is more my thing. I am 16 years old and a trustee for the Howell Area Historical Society/Depot Museum and I am currently leading the effort for our historical society to save one of these relics. My passion is anything to do with the Detroit and Mackinac and I will do as much as a dedicated 16 year old can possibly do. Though things are not doing we money wise in purchasing, we may still be able to store it on a spur track with the permission of the railroad.

-Sean Pengelly

[SD80MAC]

You must hang out with an exceptional group then, as most younger people I run across could care less.

Interesting you say that Matt. I know myself and many others my age who care very much about the preservation of historic pieces of railroad equipment.

[AARR]

You must hang out with an exceptional group then, as most younger people I run across could care less.

Interesting you say that Matt. I know myself and many others my age who care very much about the preservation of historic pieces of railroad equipment.

sd70 just admitted to getting old