Woodward Light Rail

[railohio]

You all do realize it's a streetcar now and not light rail, right?

[Clay320]

To put things in perspective.

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles ... ve_the_day

[Ypsi]

It's not dead yet! all kidding aside glad to see them make progress with the street car project. I do have the concern of safety on the system however. With Detroit's reputation and the population that is "sketchy/ not nice" if there will be any additional measures of security. When I rode the tri-rail down in Florida last winter there was an armed security gaurs who also rode the train, and the end of the line was in a "sketchy" part of town. I have no fear walking around Detroit, I just watch my back a little more, but generally I am just as aware walking around Detroit as I am walking around any city.

DETROIT – The city of Detroit has awarded a contract to Parsons Brinckerhoff for design review and construction quality assurance services for the Woodward Avenue Streetcar Project.

The 3.2-mile streetcar line is being designed and built by M-1 Rail, a consortium of businesses and local organizations, in partnership with the city of Detroit and the Michigan Department of Transportation. The route will run along Woodward Avenue from the city’s downtown, through midtown, to the New Center area, and includes 11 stations with connections to Amtrak and the Detroit People Mover.

Under the contract, Parsons Brinckerhoff is assisting the city with reviews of the project’s design plans, design criteria manual, and design specifications. The firm will also act as the city’s representative for quality assurance during construction of the project.

The Woodward Avenue Streetcar Project is funded from foundation, corporate, institutional, and Detroit Development Authority sources, along with a $25 million federal grant.

Parsons Brinckerhoff conducted a supplemental environmental assessment for the project, which received an amended record of decision in April. Construction is expected to start in mid-October with completion in fall 2015.

From the TRAINS.

[ConrailDetr​oit]

I have no fear walking around Detroit, I just watch my back a little more, but generally I am just as aware walking around Detroit as I am walking around any city.

To narrow it down it also depends on where, when and what you are doing in Detroit. Walking around downtown Detroit in midday I would not expect to have a problem with anyone ( excluding a begging homeless person ). Walking around Delray in the middle of the night I would expect more and would be on the look out way more than say walking around downtown in midday. Going to the hood to trainwatch is one thing verus going to the hood to buy or sell something illegal is another thing and way more likely to put one in harms way.

[Saturnalia]

If they really want to see light rail go in somewhere, they should come over to Grand Rapids!

[wagnew0923]

Most of the old street car rails are still in place under the blacktop. Why not use those. They should be well preserved you just need to run wire to electrify them.

[Saturnalia]

Most of the old street car rails are still in place under the blacktop. Why not use those. They should be well preserved you just need to run wire to electrify them.

In modern-day public transportation, NOTHING is ever that easy.

[J T]

Most of the old street car rails are still in place under the blacktop. Why not use those. They should be well preserved you just need to run wire to electrify them.

[Ypsi]

Most of the old street car rails are still in place under the blacktop. Why not use those. They should be well preserved you just need to run wire to electrify them.

An extensive freeway system constructed in the 1950s, '60s, '70s, and '80s encouraged auto commuting. In 1956, Detroit's last heavily used electric streetcar line along the length of Woodward Avenue was ripped out and replaced with gas powered buses. It was the last line of what had once been a 534 miles network of electric streetcars. In 1941, a streetcar had once ran on Woodward Avenue every 60 seconds at peak times

quoted from Wikipedia.. Believe it or not, I find most info to be mostly true (other then some minor errors sometimes in the articles). Ran into it doing a read up on Detroit on Wikipedia.

This quote is sourced to sources 34 and 35 on the Detroit Page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit

[wagnew0923]

I find Wiki to be pretty accurate as well. However, a drive along Michigan ave and you can still see the rail in place. They also found intact rail in Rochester under Rochester Rd. I believe they just paved over it and forgot it was there.

[hoborich]

They paved over a lot of stuff 50 years ago. But 50 years of city traffic with no repaving wears away the pavement, exposing historic artifacts from time to time. You can still see the brick pavement in front of the old "Briggs Stadium" at Michigan and Trumbull.

[atrainguy60]

Apparently they are currently looking for streetcars, and plan on starting to build in spring.

http://www.hellyeahdetroit.com/2013/11/ ... ring-thaw/

[NYCMan]

IF they actually start building this, the scrap thieves are going to have a field day. The City of Detroit is in bad --- no, TERRIBLE --- shape. The millions that have been wasted, and will be wasted, on this pipe dream could have been spent on so many other much-more-needed projects to help Detroit survive and overcome. Reinaugurating the former SEMTA commuter trains could have been done for a fraction of the cost, would be more useful, and could have been in operation several years ago from the money already spent. But, what do I know. I am just an older retiree that Obamacare has declared has "served a useful life" and, thus, deserves no extraordinary medical care to survive.

[Ypsi]

You can't scrap a moving street car. And I'm pretty sure it's kinda hard to get rails out of the middle of the street. I know Detroit is bad, but come on a field day? A bigger issue for the city will probably paying for the upkeep after it (if) gets started. Look at DPD's police cars, the city busses that roam Detroit, both are old and run down.. People mover is still running however long it's been running.

And it's not that easy or cheap to "restart" a commuter train. MDOT had been at MITrain for 6 years (or so) now. A new SEMPTA would go through the same process and take just as long, even though it's an established amtrak route with stations and everything. If I get the time to do some research today I will, but I'm pretty sure depending on what route they go with the street cars, the cost would be pretty similar to getting everything in order to do a SEMPTA type train. And I don't even know if there is any need for a commuter to go from PNT to DET.. One dead city to another

[wagnew0923]

Part of the reason the commuter trains are so hard to start is because of all the required studies. If it was a private business and no regulation, there would be a ridership study, negotiation for time for the trains to be moving on the rails, buy the equipment and start it. One to two years tops. Wally and MITRAIN could have been running for years now with the money they have spent on studies, haggling with every special interest group out their and trying to get grants. The reason M-1 is moving faster is because Private Business is taking the lead. So as soon as they got approval they get started. The only thing that delayed it was waiting for a Government Grant and City Council approval.

I do agree that I think that Mugger Mover 2 is a waste and the focus needs to be getting people into the city. However, many other cities are coming back to streetcars so I maybe wrong and this is the start that Detroit needs for Publidc Transportation. However, it needed to extend all the way to 8 mile to really be effective.

[ConrailDetr​oit]

Sounds like the scrappers would be most active during construction than operation.

[GP30M4216]

http://www.marp.org/?p=4924

From Crain’s Detroit Business:

The M-1 Rail streetcar project has told potential vehicle vendors it intends to execute a contract by Dec. 1, according to bid documents on the project’s website.

The $137 million nonprofit M-1 Rail effort is seeking a company to design, engineer and manufacture six streetcars for use on the 3.2-mile grade-level rail loop that will be constructed over the next two years on Detroit’s Woodward Avenue between Baltimore and Congress streets.

The system is projected to be operating for paying passengers by February 2016, according to the request-for-proposal.

The bids are due Oct. 21, and the winner will be selected on Oct. 28. Contract negotiations are slated to begin Oct. 31, and the deal is scheduled to proceed by Dec. 1.

The first streetcars would be delivered between 18 and 24 months later. The contract calls for only new vehicles and forbids refurbished streetcars.

Streetcars typically cost between $2 million and $6 million apiece, depending on size and options, and multi-vehicle orders usually include payment for spare parts and other ancillary costs.

Under “Buy America” requirements triggered by M-1′s use of federal money, the streetcars must be at least 60 percent manufactured domestically.

The streetcars will serve 11 stops and travel at an average speed of 35 mph, mixed with traffic largely in the center lanes of Woodward.

“The vehicle shall be a double articulated, modern urban streetcar with contemporary styling,” the bid document said.

M-1 is seeking low-floor streetcars that can operate off of an aerial electrical wire system, with wheelchair access, heat and air-conditioning, and operator cabs at either end of the car.

The streetcars, expected to seat 60 people with room for 120 more standing, will be up to 25 meters long.

Technically, M-1 Rail won’t actually own the streetcars.

Another entity, called M-2 Rail, was created to own the system to satisfy requirements of the federal government’s complex New Market Tax Credit formula. Such credits are part of M-1′s public-private-foundation funding plan to pay for the system.

M-1 laid out the creation of M-2 in a 2012 report to the U.S. Department of Transportation: “An affiliate of M-1 Rail (a Qualified Low-Income Community Business, or QALICB, referred to as M-2) will be created in order to construct and acquire the project facilities and equipment. M-2 will own all project assets for tax purposes.”

The U.S. Department of Treasury‘s New Market Tax Credit program annually awards credits against federal income taxes for qualified organizations that invest in low-income communities. Those seeking such credits must apply for them annually.

The model used in an M1 report to the federal government was the Siemens S-70 Ultrashort, manufactured by Germany’s Siemens AG.

The M-1 streetcar RFP represents the latest step in a series of major contracts that will be awarded to make the light rail line a reality.

Other M-1 project bids already awarded include San Francisco-based URS Corp. to do design work and Kansas City-based HNTB Corp. to act as owner’s representative on the project.

On July 30, Alameda, Calif.-based civil construction firm Stacy and Witbeck Inc., which has built 17 transit systems, was awarded the project’s construction manager and general contractor bids from a pool of five companies.

Detroit-based White Construction Co. has been subcontracted by Stacy and Witbeck to work on the project.

Future M-1 bids will include an estimated $9.5 million for construction of a vehicle storage and maintenance facility, and a contract for a private-sector vendor to operate and maintain the streetcar system at an estimated $5.5 million annually.

Source: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... rvice-will

[hoborich]

Maybe we could buy back those streetcars we sold to Mexico City, 50 years ago.
And they'll need to have police officers riding the streetcars. The people who brought down detroit, and made it unlivable, are still there. And their operations are based on a police response time of 1 1/2 hours!

[Raildudes dad]

URS's Farmington Hills and Grand Rapids offices are doing the design work, that that portion of the project is being done in Michigan by Michigan residents.

[Saturnalia]

If they really want to see light rail go in somewhere, they should come over to Grand Rapids!

I think this is worth repeating