GDLK News

[Saturnalia]

I don't think there is any blocking with MQT stuff, but since most of it seems to go to Toledo, I is probably an easier pick-apart, but I don't work in the biz. Perhaps Dok can shed some light?

Its scheduled time 'out' is 1000. If its not leaving until 1700 or 1900, then its running "Late".

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What train? Z151, Q327 or Q334?

[bctrainfan]

If GDLK will be switching Battle Creek, will that include Knappen Mills in Augusta too?

Yes, one would assume so, its about halfway between GDLK Gearhart Yard in Kazoo and NS Hinman Yard in Battle Creek, and is actually one of the largest customers, so it would only make sense, if there is a change. As I said before, it might almost make more sense for NS to lease all the way to Jackson instead of just to BC. That would leave NS to just run a daily Wayne-Jackson turn (B34?), which would often be a sizeable train, to interchange with JAIL and GDLK. In that case, would GDLK be able take traffic from directly from CSX or CN to a customer or to JAIL, or does the current agreement require NS gets a piece of the action for anything that moves via GDLK?

This all being said, and I do enjoy such speculation and discussion, but most of us are just railfans with no real stake in these things. I will remind everyone that we have fellow members here that are NS employees that would be significantly affected by these kind of changes, and that we should all be mindful that our speculations can cause a great deal of stress to people whose real world jobs we are discussing, and hope that they also know that no disrespect is intended.

[JStryker722]

+ 1

If GDLK will be switching Battle Creek, will that include Knappen Mills in Augusta too?

Yes, one would assume so, its about halfway between GDLK Gearhart Yard in Kazoo and NS Hinman Yard in Battle Creek, and is actually one of the largest customers, so it would only make sense, if there is a change. As I said before, it might almost make more sense for NS to lease all the way to Jackson instead of just to BC. That would leave NS to just run a daily Wayne-Jackson turn (B34?), which would often be a sizeable train, to interchange with JAIL and GDLK. In that case, would GDLK be able take traffic from directly from CSX or CN to a customer or to JAIL, or does the current agreement require NS gets a piece of the action for anything that moves via GDLK?

This all being said, and I do enjoy such speculation and discussion, but most of us are just railfans with no real stake in these things. I will remind everyone that we have fellow members here that are NS employees that would be significantly affected by these kind of changes, and that we should all be mindful that our speculations can cause a great deal of stress to people whose real world jobs we are discussing, and hope that they also know that no disrespect is intended.

[Mike H]

"MQT has haulage rights over over GDLK although they have never exercised the haulage rights"

MQT has haulage rights OVER GDLK to the NS, but not to CN. Its not the best haulage rights agreement so as long as GDLK is somewhat reasonable with their factor to NS then there is no need to use it. I think the people at GDLK have a good understanding that the MQT traffic is incremental traffic & can easily move via CSX to the NS so they price to the market. MQT also uses the GDLK for a lot of traffic to CN as well. All of the major MQT customers use the GDLK to get to CN & I believe they all use GDLK to get to NS as well, but I'm not 100% sure of that anymore.

As for the blocking, yes it is in the agreement that CSX & MQT are supposed to block the trains. 3 blocks built by CSX & 2 by MQT. MQT never blocked so in the last few years CSX stopped blocking as well, but most traffic does move via Toledo so its not too bad.

Mike H

[GTW]

Any news on how long BO tower in Kalamazoo has till it is closed..

Thanks, Tom

[NSSD70ACe]

Any news on how long BO tower in Kalamazoo has till it is closed..

Thanks, Tom

AFAIK, wont be closed for a while. There hasn't been any Amtrak MoW equipment in Kalamazoo for quite a while now, so I would assume maybe closer to 2020?

[CSX_CO]

Any news on how long BO tower in Kalamazoo has till it is closed..

Thanks, Tom

AFAIK, wont be closed for a while. There hasn't been any Amtrak MoW equipment in Kalamazoo for quite a while now, so I would assume maybe closer to 2020?

What would MOW equipment have to do with closing the tower?

I would bet if/when they upgrade the signals at the crossing, they'll remote the tower too.

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[JStryker722]

Any news on how long BO tower in Kalamazoo has till it is closed..

Thanks, Tom

AFAIK, wont be closed for a while. There hasn't been any Amtrak MoW equipment in Kalamazoo for quite a while now, so I would assume maybe closer to 2020?

What would MOW equipment have to do with closing the tower?

I would bet if/when they upgrade the signals at the crossing, they'll remote the tower too.

Practice Safe CSX

I'm guessing that would be one of the last things to happen during the upgrades ( I imagine )

[NSSD70ACe]

AFAIK, wont be closed for a while. There hasn't been any Amtrak MoW equipment in Kalamazoo for quite a while now, so I would assume maybe closer to 2020?

What would MOW equipment have to do with closing the tower?

I would bet if/when they upgrade the signals at the crossing, they'll remote the tower too.

Practice Safe CSX

MoW vehicles, as in Hi-rails, trucks, etc.

No news about those NYC signals next to the tower, but I agree with you. If they do upgrade the signals there, they'll probably get rid of the tower.

[JStryker722]

AFAIK, wont be closed for a while. There hasn't been any Amtrak MoW equipment in Kalamazoo for quite a while now, so I would assume maybe closer to 2020?

What would MOW equipment have to do with closing the tower?

I would bet if/when they upgrade the signals at the crossing, they'll remote the tower too.

Practice Safe CSX

MoW vehicles, as in Hi-rails, trucks, etc.

No news about those NYC signals next to the tower, but I agree with you. If they do upgrade the signals there, they'll probably get rid of the tower.

Probably remoting the tower will happen near the end of the upgrades after they upgraded the tracks and figured out the PTC signaling system for the Kalamazoo-Dearborn segment.

[CSX_CO]

I'm guessing that would be one of the last things to happen during the upgrades ( I imagine )

It sounds like the signal system is shot. A lot of the systems that Conrail installed are shot now. I think more would be gained by AMTRAK by replacing the signals east of K-zoo, then spending millions to get the railroad back up to 79mph. What good is having awesome track, if the signals go out when its sunny/rainy/snowy/cloudy

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[Saturnalia]

I'm guessing that would be one of the last things to happen during the upgrades ( I imagine )

It sounds like the signal system is shot. A lot of the systems that Conrail installed are shot now. I think more would be gained by AMTRAK by replacing the signals east of K-zoo, then spending millions to get the railroad back up to 79mph. What good is having awesome track, if the signals go out when its sunny/rainy/snowy/cloudy

Practice Safe CSX

Dumb question time: What type of signals are west of K-zoo?

[NSSD70ACe]

I'm guessing that would be one of the last things to happen during the upgrades ( I imagine )

It sounds like the signal system is shot. A lot of the systems that Conrail installed are shot now. I think more would be gained by AMTRAK by replacing the signals east of K-zoo, then spending millions to get the railroad back up to 79mph. What good is having awesome track, if the signals go out when its sunny/rainy/snowy/cloudy

Practice Safe CSX

The old trilights at Drake Road and the Searchlights next to BO work in all weather. Do you mean closer to Dearborn?

@MQT3001: Safetrans with the exception of the Trilights at Drake Road and the NYC searchlights at BO.

[Saturnalia]

@MQT3001: Safetrans with the exception of the Trilights at Drake Road and the NYC searchlights at BO.

I thought so. I've gotta get more into that segment...

[CSX_CO]

The old trilights at Drake Road and the Searchlights next to BO work in all weather. Do you mean closer to Dearborn?

@MQT3001: Safetrans with the exception of the Trilights at Drake Road and the NYC searchlights at BO.

Old tri-lights? Pretty sure those are 'new' tri-lights, or new construction anyway out there at Drake Road. At least from what I remember seeing of them.

You can get your 'SafeTRANS' signal arranged in any order you want. Stop light, 'tri-light', position light, etc. All depends on what you want to spend. They'll even build you a 'new' searchlight if you really want one. Also the nice thing about "SafeTRANS' is that the light assemblies are modular and with the right brackets they'll assemble them any way you want.

Of course the signals at BO are going to work fine. Its only a short run, and directly wired into everything. Its the signal system east of K-zoo and east of Battle Creek that are shot. Just an old system, long past its prime, and wasn't that reliable when it was installed. NS and CSX are running into the same problems with their 'legacy' Conrail/PC systems. Just tired and worn out. Nevermind searchlights are nothing more than a electric semaphore inside, and 70 years past their 'operational' prime. Another mechanical and electrical system to maintain and/or fail on you.

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[Saturnalia]

You can get your 'SafeTRANS' signal arranged in any order you want. Stop light, 'tri-light', position light, etc. All depends on what you want to spend. They'll even build you a 'new' searchlight if you really want one. Also the nice thing about "SafeTRANS' is that the light assemblies are modular and with the right brackets they'll assemble them any way you want.

Are there any roads who have elected to re-arrange them from the standard "stop light" configuration?

A secondary question, are there any raods that literally go stop-light style with red on top instead of green?

[CSX_CO]

Are there any roads who have elected to re-arrange them from the standard "stop light" configuration?

I'm sure there are instances of them doing installations of them, yes. I know NS has replaced some of their PRR Position Lights around Hammond with replacement SafeTRANS versions. Signals at Colhour spring to mind. Those in turn are getting replaced with the standard 'vertical' installations as they come back through and upgrade everything.

Usually opt for the vertical installation because of the snow shield and the advantages it affords to keeping lenses clean and sun light off the lenses.

A secondary question, are there any raods that literally go stop-light style with red on top instead of green?

C&O did. At least on two headed signals to give more separation between the 'reds' on them. Top head the red is 'up high' and on the 2nd head it is 'down low'. Probably holds true on intermediates too, but it has been a long time since I've seen a C&O intermediate.

Otherwise, for most roads, 'green' was on top as it related to semaphores, and getting a 'high green'.

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[JStryker722]

Are there any roads who have elected to re-arrange them from the standard "stop light" configuration?

I'm sure there are instances of them doing installations of them, yes. I know NS has replaced some of their PRR Position Lights around Hammond with replacement SafeTRANS versions. Signals at Colhour spring to mind. Those in turn are getting replaced with the standard 'vertical' installations as they come back through and upgrade everything.

Usually opt for the vertical installation because of the snow shield and the advantages it affords to keeping lenses clean and sun light off the lenses.

A secondary question, are there any raods that literally go stop-light style with red on top instead of green?

C&O did. At least on two headed signals to give more separation between the 'reds' on them. Top head the red is 'up high' and on the 2nd head it is 'down low'. Probably holds true on intermediates too, but it has been a long time since I've seen a C&O intermediate.

Otherwise, for most roads, 'green' was on top as it related to semaphores, and getting a 'high green'.

Practice Safe CSX

CSX_Co,as a yard master,why would a railroad install a modern version of an older signal design?

[SD80MAC]

Are there any roads who have elected to re-arrange them from the standard "stop light" configuration?

I'm sure there are instances of them doing installations of them, yes. I know NS has replaced some of their PRR Position Lights around Hammond with replacement SafeTRANS versions. Signals at Colhour spring to mind. Those in turn are getting replaced with the standard 'vertical' installations as they come back through and upgrade everything.

Usually opt for the vertical installation because of the snow shield and the advantages it affords to keeping lenses clean and sun light off the lenses.

A secondary question, are there any raods that literally go stop-light style with red on top instead of green?

C&O did. At least on two headed signals to give more separation between the 'reds' on them. Top head the red is 'up high' and on the 2nd head it is 'down low'. Probably holds true on intermediates too, but it has been a long time since I've seen a C&O intermediate.

Otherwise, for most roads, 'green' was on top as it related to semaphores, and getting a 'high green'.

Practice Safe CSX

I believe there's a few spots on the CN South Bend and Flint Subs that have "newer" search lights, as in the last 10-20 years.

[CSX_CO]

I believe there's a few spots on the CN South Bend and Flint Subs that have "newer" search lights, as in the last 10-20 years.

A friend who is manager of signals and communications for a regional here in the Midwest told me SafeTRANS would build you a 'new' searchlight signal, but it would cost $10K to do it. That might have been for the head only, as he seemed to imply that it was pretty steep cost. I know in my limited dealings with Alstom that their products aren't cheap!

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