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Buster Manning wrote: I forget the name of this yard and in the photo there is a DWP car sitting on the interchange, which seems to be the majority of what is interchanged here--CN family box cars and bulk-head lumber flats--that I have seen thru the years of going by here.

Saginaw yard at what used to be two OLDS plants, now torn down.

GTWFRED wrote:

Buster Manning wrote: I forget the name of this yard and in the photo there is a DWP car sitting on the interchange, which seems to be the majority of what is interchanged here--CN family box cars and bulk-head lumber flats--that I have seen thru the years of going by here.

Saginaw yard at what used to be two OLDS plants, now torn down.

Hey GTWFRED, Thank you.

Ok where it that auto max thread about the rolling prisons .

The "yard" that NS & CN interchanged at is called the New Hollow Yard.

All this speculation on the GP-9's going to JAIL. Couldn't they lease power from the NS until they can figure out what they need? I seem to recall other startup railroads have done this.

DLM wrote:All this speculation on the GP-9's going to JAIL. Couldn't they lease power from the NS until they can figure out what they need? I seem to recall other startup railroads have done this.

Indeed, I seem to recall during the first week or so of Grand Elk operations they were using the normal NS 36E/37E power from Elkhart to GR and back until they got their units up and running.

Hogger1225 wrote:The "yard" that NS & CN interchanged at is called the New Hollow Yard.

OwlCaboose: Hogger1225 is right "new hollow yard" just north of the CN main. I was thinking of NS's Saginaw yard 2 miles north of there. Sorry man!
Fred

Buster Manning wrote:I wonder what the A&B had to give NS for the rights to interchange with CSX?

I don't see anything regarding interchange in the document. There is mention of trackage rights with CSX, and reference to an agreement between CSX and Conrail in 1995. This must be referring to when CSX bought the Lansing Branch from MA to North Lansing, and Conrail was given trackage rights over it (reversing their roles from prior to the sale). JAIL will need to make use of the trackage rights agreement to reach Saginaw Yard.

I'm curious if interchange with CN and CSX will be allowed. I'm sure NS would prefer not, but perhaps the STB would require it as terms of the lease?

The way I read the agreement is that while interchange with CSX is allowed, it would be more lucrative to interchange with NS.

You're right Buster, my apologies. I missed the document that mentions interchange with CSX. There is also reference to a 1980 interchange agreement between GTW and CR, so hopefully that will be carried over too. I was mistaken too with the joint trackage arrangement in Lansing, apparently CSX is leasing the main between MA and North Lansing.

what kind of condition is the roadbed in, basiclly like a 10 mph branch, or has ns spent any money on upgrading before dumping it, and this is piece #2, of the original plan for ns to dump most of the mid and west portions of michigan, to watco..
just a thought

thomas wrote:what kind of condition is the roadbed in, basiclly like a 10 mph branch, or has ns spent any money on upgrading before dumping it, and this is piece #2, of the original plan for ns to dump most of the mid and west portions of michigan, to watco..
just a thought

My understnading is NS has done minimal maintenance, no capital improvements, and it's a 10mph line.

AARR wrote:

thomas wrote:what kind of condition is the roadbed in, basiclly like a 10 mph branch, or has ns spent any money on upgrading before dumping it, and this is piece #2, of the original plan for ns to dump most of the mid and west portions of michigan, to watco..
just a thought

My understnading is NS has done minimal maintenance, no capital improvements, and it's a 10mph line.

Well wasn't that true when Grand Elk got the line between K-Zoo and GR? IIRC they were smarter than NS and got it back up to 25 like it should be.
Hope they do get some of the GP9's. Would love to see an all GP9 consist out of lansing.

NS only did whatever maintenance that was necessary to keep the trains rolling, nothing more. Entire secondary has been 10 mph for at least 4 years. Last stretch of 25 was between Aurelius Rd and Holt Rd. I was still working the night job, B-28 when it all went to 10. The track between MA and North Lansing was taken over by the CSX, they maintain the track and maintain the signals. Shortly after they took ownership of the "Miracle Mile" they removed one of the mains, really wasn't any reason to have kept both.

Having only seen the line once and from I96 all of the other times, I seem to think that the road bed itself was in good shape. I would imagine they just didn't do a lot of tie work and that would be the reason it is down to 10mph. The way things play out will be interesting, as the Adrian and Blissfield now owns the most short lines in the state. Hopefully they can bring some good business to the line.

Hogger1225 wrote:NS only did whatever maintenance that was necessary to keep the trains rolling, nothing more. Entire secondary has been 10 mph for at least 4 years. Last stretch of 25 was between Aurelius Rd and Holt Rd. I was still working the night job, B-28 when it all went to 10. The track between MA and North Lansing was taken over by the CSX, they maintain the track and maintain the signals. Shortly after they took ownership of the "Miracle Mile" they removed one of the mains, really wasn't any reason to have kept both.

When was this line taken over my CSX? Was this takeover a lease of purchase. The reason I ask is that the STB filings seem to indicated that the line is still owned by NS via Conrail but is on lease to CSX. I agree it makes no sense to have both mains in place there. I'm actually a little shocked CSX hasn't just purchased it if it is still leased.

My question is what was the track arangement prior to this "lease" that I think occurred. Where did C&O/ Chessie run and where did the Penn Central run at that point? Why was the trackage consolidated?

One of the documents cites a Pere Marquette/Michigan Central agreement dating to something like 1923. I don't know if they had parallel mains up until that point, or if the agreement dated back farther than that. At any rate it ended up that the C&O had trackage rights over the section of the NYC/PC/CR Saginaw Branch between MA and North Lansing. Both locations had towers, with MA remaining active until the mid 80s-ish. At some point (1980ish) Conrail renamed the track from Saginaw Branch/Secondary to the Lansing Branch/Secondary. As late as 1994 the line from Jackson to MA was the Lansing Secondary, and from MA to North Lansing it was the Lansing Branch. As I understand it the joint section with CSX was termed a "Branch" because the signals were directly controlled by the Conrail dispatcher.

All GP9s are still on the A&B line as of today (Sept 30).

Anyone hear anything new?

I haven't eheard anything. I think most would lean toward NS still loaning them power or leasing one.

I don't think we'll see anything yet as they have until the 16th to start operations. ADBF may lease power from NS as most (what would now be interchange) traffic at this point is coming north from NS via Jackson...
I don't think that given the patterns of operations that they will base locomotive units out of Lansing, unless they radically restructure things.
Though I sorely wish they would both base out of Lansing and use ADBF power.