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City wants delays at tracks to stop
Saturday, January 17, 2009 By Fredricka Paulfpaul@citpat.com -- 768-4927
City officials want something done about afternoon traffic backups caused by Amtrak trains in downtown Jackson.

Two Amtrak passenger trains arrive in Jackson at about 1:30 p.m. Because they use the same tracks, one train has to wait while the other allows passengers to get on and off the train. That causes a train to block traffic at Michigan Avenue and Cooper Street and at Francis Street and Louis Glick Highway.

City officials have asked the Michigan Department of Transportation to file a complaint with the Federal Railroad Administration.

``This movement causes considerable traffic backup, especially on Michigan Avenue and Cooper Street,'' City Manager William Ross wrote in a memo to council members. ``We have serious concerns about public safety issues for both police and fire.''

Councilman Andrew Frounfelker said the backup is ``hit or miss'' on any given day and the amount of time for the delay varies.

Frounfelker said there is an issue with a switch used to guide trains into the station, making one wait until the other clears to allow passengers to get on or off the train.

Norfolk Southern railroad officials say rusty circuitry caused by lack of use is to blame.

Rudy Husband, spokesman for Norfolk Southern Railroad, said the issue only arises when those trains show up at the same time. He said he plans to discuss the issue with Amtrak. The railroad company plans to ask Amtrak to adjust its schedule so the trains arrive at different times, he said.

There is only one train track that can be used to go through Jackson, Husband said. When two trains meet, one has to be briefly switched to a different track.

Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said he was unaware of the issue and the company has no plans to change the schedule.

Any time a train runs on #1 track this will happen- there isn't a solution beside ripping it up to make the city fathers happy or creating a special instruction in the timetable to modify the NS operating rules that govern movements where rusty rail conditions exist. Even if the schedule is changed, there will inevitably be meets at CP Jackson at some point.

How can a "Rusty Rail" condition be avoided? Do so many trains have to pass over the track per day? to keep the rust from building up? How do you rectify a rust rail condition?

I just love how the City Of Jackson thinks they can modify the scheadule so meets wont happen. Like you Say there are always going to be meets at some point.

Once a track is put on as rusty rail, it's nearly impossible to get the signal department to change their mind. As with most management, no one wants to put their name behind a removal of anything for fear if something fails once 30 years in the future, they will get blamed. We had a siding that was rusty rail forever, that we kept asking the signal guys to take the rusty off of because it was used daily for train meets. It took a new supervisor, a year of lobbying, and a weeks worth of testing to solve that.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, a whole long stretch of doubletrack should just be torn out then... what good is having it if you can't use it as such? Now, I don't think that's the best solution, but pretty much that is what it's become. Not only as passengers inconvenienced (both trains will undoubtedly lose time making this complicated switching move), but residents of Jackson are inconvenienced.

I too join with Scott wondering what could be done to prevent a rusty rail situation, and what can be done to remedy such a situation. By "Rusty rail," does that mean the rail is physically too rusty to support a passing train, or that it is not capable of supporting the electrical current for signalling circuitry, or what?

I think it has to do with the shunting of electrical signals, the track is physically ok just a layer of rust on it, I do not think it is a problem with frieght trains just AMTK

The heart of the matter is this:

None of the trains block any grade crossings more than five minutes, rusty rail or not- the crossings are equipped with motion detectors and the warning devices time out well ahead of time.
However, many times, 350, 353, and B16 will run within minutes of each other, and vehicular traffic doesn't always get the chance to clear.

Jackson was once a railroad town, but apparently has forgotten its roots. Trains were a common part of daily life up until perhaps 20 years ago; now they're not only a nuisance, but a "safety hazard".

Now the media is having some difficulty- they asked if it was "broken down rusty Amtrak trains" causing the problem- you could just tell they were aching to fit that in their stores somehow. The public and media's perception of railroad operations is zero. Well, below zero. Negative.

Compounded with the city's heavy-handed and very questionable government and police, as well as the public's airheadedness regarding railroads in general, I am not shocked.

Why doesn't the media take some time and look at subjects of much greater importance, such as (but not limited to) Jackson's corrupt, thug, Nazi-like police force, endless subsidies to Consumers Energy, abhorrent traffic planning, and "good ol' boy" networking government in general? Are they afraid to step on some toes? Probably.

I've mentioned this to my boss previously and asked him to ask NS to make the meet at Hill as I think it would go alot quicker; his reply was similar to mine about the meet at Hill, but it was up to the DS and it seems that they get a little set in their ways and probably don't even think about the delays involved and how it effects Joe Q. Public---both on the train and off.....

I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THOSE PEOPLE IN JACKSON.

I'VE SAT IN POTTERS PUB ON MANY OCCASIONS AND I'VE NEVER BEEN BOTHERED BY AMTRAK TRAINS

APPARENTLY THERE ARE MORE BOOBS OUTSIDE OF POTTERS THAN INSIDE.


THOSE PEOPLE THAT COMPLAIN SHOULD GET A LIFE.

amtrakjackson wrote:The heart of the matter is this:

None of the trains block any grade crossings more than five minutes, rusty rail or not- the crossings are equipped with motion detectors and the warning devices time out well ahead of time.
However, many times, 350, 353, and B16 will run within minutes of each other, and vehicular traffic doesn't always get the chance to clear.

Jackson was once a railroad town, but apparently has forgotten its roots. Trains were a common part of daily life up until perhaps 20 years ago; now they're not only a nuisance, but a "safety hazard".

Now the media is having some difficulty- they asked if it was "broken down rusty Amtrak trains" causing the problem- you could just tell they were aching to fit that in their stores somehow. The public and media's perception of railroad operations is zero. Well, below zero. Negative.

Compounded with the city's heavy-handed and very questionable government and police, as well as the public's airheadedness regarding railroads in general, I am not shocked.

Why doesn't the media take some time and look at subjects of much greater importance, such as (but not limited to) Jackson's corrupt, thug, Nazi-like police force, endless subsidies to Consumers Energy, abhorrent traffic planning, and "good ol' boy" networking government in general? Are they afraid to step on some toes? Probably.

Endless subsidies to Consumers Energy? Care to explain that? Nothing like the endless subsidies that Amtrack gets from the US tax payers right?

For the record, Consumers Energy is a large tax payer to the county of Jackson, as well as the State of Michigan. They are the third largest employer in Jackson, and their employees contribute a lot of cash to charities such as the United Way. There employees volunteer countless hours to schools, clubs, charities, cub scouts, girl scouts etc. I don't think Amtrack even comes close to that.

Can't they just park the waiting train anywhere else than on a crossing blocking traffic? Seems like a simple solution...maybe even one a first grader could figure out.

What do volunteering hours have to do with anything AMTRAK (that's how it's spelled) gets government subsidies because they are a unit of government!! The fact that consumers energy gets some is a diffrent matter entirely.

Can't they just park the waiting train anywhere else than on a crossing blocking traffic?

They do pull past the crosssings. but then 1 has to back back across the crossing to get back on "THE GOOD TRACK".

THe problem is when they make the meet at Jackson (AKA CP Jackson) its just west of the depot, the problem normally occures for the early afternoon trains I think 353 350, If 353 get there first they pull into the depot load there passenger from the far track #1? THe depot is right at Milwalkee Street or whatever its name is this month. as they pull into the station the gates activate time out and raise, about that time they are ready to leave they pull west of the station cross from 1 to 2 and stop past the last crossing 353 come into the station activating the gates again pick up there passangers and leaves then 353 revearses crossing 3 main roads again to get back on track 1. when they get a favorable signal they cross all 3 main roads again finally headed west.

Back in the 80's Jackson was a PITA to get around, I worked downtown and people all the time would stop and ask directions, We just told them you could not drive from here to there even though you could see the building.

Too me this says if I want a meet on the Michigan Line, I should go to Jackson.

YES, you might get lucky as B-16 heads west around that time also

Mike Tabone wrote:Too me this says if I want a meet on the Michigan Line, I should go to Jackson.

I like what how you think mike

ns8401 wrote:What do volunteering hours have to do with anything AMTRAK (that's how it's spelled) gets government subsidies because they are a unit of government!! The fact that consumers energy gets some is a diffrent matter entirely.

Was I talking to you in the first place? I don't think so, I was asking for amtrakjackson to explain the endless subsidies to Consumers comment. I for one get sick and tired of listing to uninformed citizens of Jackson spout off about Consumers Energy, receiving money/subsidies etc from the government which they do not. Yes, the city paid for the parking garages so CE employees could park there. Its something called an agreement. CE/CMS agrees to stay in downtown and the city coughs up some dough for the parking. Consumers pay's the city for the surface lot behind wendys as well as the parking garages. CE monitors security cameras in the parking garages as well. Its a win win situation for the city. They receive taxes from employees as well as property tax from CE.

Was I talking to you in the first place? I don't think so, I was asking for amtrakjackson to explain the endless subsidies to Consumers comment. I for one get sick and tired of listing to uninformed citizens of Jackson spout off about Consumers Energy, receiving money/subsidies etc from the government which they do not. Yes, the city paid for the parking garages so CE employees could park there. Its something called an agreement. CE/CMS agrees to stay in downtown and the city coughs up some dough for the parking. Consumers pay's the city for the surface lot behind wendys as well as the parking garages. CE monitors security cameras in the parking garages as well. Its a win win situation for the city. They receive taxes from employees as well as property tax from CE.

I was mearly throwing my two cents in as a member of this site. There is NO need to take a swipe at me for asking a question. I had no idea comment was merely reserved for the one member being addressed around here... wait it's NOT!

Turbo1 wrote:

ns8401 wrote:What do volunteering hours have to do with anything AMTRAK (that's how it's spelled) gets government subsidies because they are a unit of government!! The fact that consumers energy gets some is a diffrent matter entirely.

Was I talking to you in the first place? I don't think so, I was asking for amtrakjackson to explain the endless subsidies to Consumers comment. I for one get sick and tired of listing to uninformed citizens of Jackson spout off about Consumers Energy, receiving money/subsidies etc from the government which they do not. Yes, the city paid for the parking garages so CE employees could park there. Its something called an agreement. CE/CMS agrees to stay in downtown and the city coughs up some dough for the parking. Consumers pay's the city for the surface lot behind wendys as well as the parking garages. CE monitors security cameras in the parking garages as well. Its a win win situation for the city. They receive taxes from employees as well as property tax from CE.

Turbo, if you want to speak to only one person, use the Private message feature. Your comment above is rude and disrespects the board. Before you ask, I will answer, NO , you were not talking to me, but one thing you will learn about this board is when you post something it is open for anyone to comment. If you don't want that, sent a PM

JIM

ns8401 wrote:

Was I talking to you in the first place? I don't think so, I was asking for amtrakjackson to explain the endless subsidies to Consumers comment. I for one get sick and tired of listing to uninformed citizens of Jackson spout off about Consumers Energy, receiving money/subsidies etc from the government which they do not. Yes, the city paid for the parking garages so CE employees could park there. Its something called an agreement. CE/CMS agrees to stay in downtown and the city coughs up some dough for the parking. Consumers pay's the city for the surface lot behind wendys as well as the parking garages. CE monitors security cameras in the parking garages as well. Its a win win situation for the city. They receive taxes from employees as well as property tax from CE.

I was mearly throwing my two cents in as a member of this site. There is NO need to take a swipe at me for asking a question. I had no idea comment was merely reserved for the one member being addressed around here... wait it's NOT!

That's ok, and I will apologize for getting your dander up then.