BNSF TEST TRAIN WEST OLIVE

[Bentrail]

MONDAY OR TUESDAY NIGHT THERE GOING TO BE A BNSF TEST TRAIN FOR WEST OLIVE.
2 ENGINE ON THE HEAD END AND ONE ENGINE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRAIN.

[anumber1]

It's a DPU test train that will carry a BNSF roadforeman from CHI to WO.

Epic Fail comes to mind. I have worked the "pushers". The hill requires two big ones, front and rear and it is not at all pleasant looking at the rear car of that 130 car, 18,000+ ton train with 8,800 HP in run8, doing 1.5 mph. Makes a fella a bit nervous actually.

My prediction, someday they are gonna fill in the valleys of Saugatuck Hill with coal (OOPS!).

[AARR]

Does management consult the people who operate the trains before they make decisions or do they rely on data from reports?

Problem with big business is decision makers are far removed from people who are on the front lines.

I don't know if UPS still does this but there was a time all managers had to go out on the road with a driver periodically.

[~Z~]

If they run an engine in the middle of the train, how am I supposed to get pics of the pushers in decent light? Much harder to get the headend of the train that heads mainly north in good light as it is to get the rear end.
Then again, as long as the coal keeps flowing up here, I'm ok with it either way.

[anumber1]

Q:"Does management consult the people who operate the trains before they make decisions or do they rely on data from reports?"

A:
Never.

I will keep a lookout on the "hotwire" for this train but my prediction stands at "Giant Snafu".

I have been on both ends of a western train with pushers. It gets over the hill; but it 'aint pretty.

[GTWFRED]

Anumber1: My grandad was a steam driver, in pusher service, in his last years, in Colorado. Unfortunately he passed away, before I had a chance to ask him any ?'s. My dad only remembers him saying he loved working for the RR, but pusher service "scared the hell out of him", anything you might be able to relate? Thanks. Fred

[JANGAJONGA]

this is probably a dumb question but what is so bad about helper service? is it the fact that you are in the middle in the a heavy big train?

[Bentrail]

The probelm is there only going to be one engine in the middle instead of two.

[cnw8835]

Out of curiosity, is BNSF really going to...
a) Run a mid-train DPU all the way from the mine instead of the standard end of train DPU
b) Relocate the standard end of train DPU to the middle of the train at Lincoln, Galesburg or Chicago
or
c) This is actually just going to be using an end of train DPU, not a mid train?

[ns8401]

Probably all the way from the mine that way it wouldn't have to be pulled apart to add the mid-train helper.
It's going to be a mid-train helper rather then the current end of train helpers.
of course this is just an experiment, but i'm with most of you guys..... EPIC FAIL!!!

[KCS KNOCKE TOWER]

Gunna have to side with ANUMBER UNO on this issue. While maybe not an epic failure a 1 mph climb up Saugutuk hill is murder on power, curves, and not to mention the infrastructure of the hill. Entirely to much wear and tear. Leave it to the powers that be to come up with the worst possible solution.
Anumber1 correct me if i'm wrong but wasnt there a engineer that tried to take on the great hill with 3 sd70's on the head end and almost made it but then the computer took over the sanders and he lost all traction and stalled about 500 or so yards from the top of the hill. Savage though it may be? Would he have made it with different power or no computer at all?

[sd70accsxt700]

Mabey mid train but I would have to side with cnw8835, on this. Spent a week in Nebraska last year, and I cant rember one coal train with a mid train DPU. JQ can correct me if I am wrong.

[gridejq]

All the West Olive loads I see so far on the BNSF right now are 2 units on front and one on rear DPU...BNSF has been wanting to run the DPU all the way through for a year now or more...as they worked out the deal with CN last year to do it and are working on it with CSX and NS...unless they are going to splice the train I would see it running as a regular DPU or have it split in Cicero....mines dont load with mid train sets

[gridejq]

Matt is right-not one mid DPU and also have looked at a pile of numerous loads and there arent any showing...im assuming they will do the normal DPU...but who knows

[anumber1]

Helper service with the coal trains on Sagatuck hill is nerve wracking due to the fact that you have 17600hp working as hard as it can and you are still getting below 3 mph. When you are sitting on a 4400hp, AC traction locomotive, the computer does strange things with the traction control near stall. They hop, bounce, squeal, leap, jump and basically do everything that would make you think "I'm going on the ground and rolling down the hill in this thing if the rail rolls over" (which it can and will do).

I don't know how many "cheat" but 5mph can mean the difference between stalled and "made it" (35 mph speed restriction on the "hill").

If you have ever stalled and had to walk your train on the hill, you soon would realize that the right of way is steep and deep with very little "ledge" on either side.

So in summary, Helper service puts everything on the line. You are just barely getting the job done and are totally dependent on the fact that the track is gonna hold up, the cars in the train are going to not break and the other end of the train is gonna do the job as well as they can too.

KCS Knocke Twr!

Good to hear from ya!

Yeas, that knuckle busting (several), Savage incident was a moment of fine railroading.

I wonder if that particular engr is still on the job, somewhere?

[SD80MAC]

Would the the trains make it up the hill with just one DPU on the end? They have a hard enough time getting up with 4 engines, never seen it tried with just 3. If BNSF didn't take off the lead unit in Chicago (from what I read on here, they come in with 3 units on the head end, they pull one off before it goes to CSX) I could see this working.

[anumber1]

Would the the trains make it up the hill with just one DPU on the end? They have a hard enough time getting up with 4 engines, never seen it tried with just 3. If BNSF didn't take off the lead unit in Chicago (from what I read on here, they come in with 3 units on the head end, they pull one off before it goes to CSX) I could see this working.

Perhaps but the chance of "getting a knuckle" is pretty great with three "big ones" on the head end and one on the rear.

I don't see this thing happening with a helper in the middle. Convenience is king.

[Bentrail]

Wouldn't just make since and leave it the way it is.

[anumber1]

"Wouldn't just make since and leave it the way it is."

The horsepower hours are out of whack.

CSXT hates to spend the money that it takes to get the job done!

Usually, a helper job uses BNSF power. The time and use of that power incurs payment from CSXT to the BNSF for "wear and tear" as well as fuel.

A DPU saves some money (possibly, if they can find a way to quantify lost time and risk).

Railroading is a lost art (IMHO), the insurance and liability dpt has a lot of say these days.

[PAT.C]

I FIND THIS THREAD VERY INTERESTING.
PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED AS TO WHEN AND THE RESULTS .