Ann Arbor tracks

[Pie39]

Are the tracks thru Ann Arbor Amtrak-only tracks?

[SD80MAC]

Are the tracks thru Ann Arbor Amtrak-only tracks?

Nope, the east-west line was until recently owned by Norfolk Southern, and still might be as I'm not sure when the sale to the state of Michigan is finalized. As far as I know, NS runs a pair of freights through there everyday, 38E and 39E. The north-south line which crosses the river is the Ann Arbor RR, which runs through AA largely at night.

[Michigan Railfan]

Are the tracks thru Ann Arbor Amtrak-only tracks?

Nope, the east-west line was until recently owned by Norfolk Southern, and still might be as I'm not sure when the sale to the state of Michigan is finalized. As far as I know, NS runs a pair of freights through there everyday, 38E and 39E. The north-south line which crosses the river is the Ann Arbor RR, which runs through AA largely at night.

The sale just went through today. The state of Michigan purchased quite a bit of the Detroit-Chicago line for around 150 million dollars. Michigan was also granted with 196 million dollars for extensive changes, such as replacing signals and track. The line, when finished, will allow 110 mph travel on roughly 77 percent of the line. This will make me want to go to Chicago more often . I took the Wolverine from Dearborn to Chicago over the summer, when NS placed 20 mph restrictions on most of the line... The ride was 7 1/2 hours each way... Not fun. Does this higher speed limit mean new equipment? Can P42's even go 110?

[Pie39]

Thanks, so what will run on it now besides Amtrak?

[Saturnalia]

Thanks, so what will run on it now besides Amtrak?

I believe that NS will retain freight rights, so the tracks would change hands, but NS would still run local freights

[PerRock]

the P42s, upgraded P40s, and P32ACDMs (in Diesel mode) can reach 110 mph, however that is the legal maximum speed for them. The un-upgraded P40s can only do 103 mph. The P32ACDMs In electric) can do 60 mph. I don't know what the max speed on a B32-8WH is, however I would asume it is somewhere in the 100mph range, as it uses the same prime mover as the P42s. The F59PHIs (use on the west coast) are set to have their max at 110 mph as well. Seimens makes a diesel version of their Vectron locomotive family (of which the new ACS-64 electric engine is part of). However this is a new engine & so speed details have yet to be worked out; the ACS-64 will have it's max speed at 125 mph.

peter

[JANGAJONGA]

38E and 39E plus the 6 daily amtraks...they may run a unit grain once or so a year.

[sd70accsxt700]

The P32ACDMs In electric) can do 60 mph. I don't know what the max speed on a B32-8WH is, however I would asume it is somewhere in the 100mph range, as it uses the same prime mover as the P42s.

Has nothing to do with prime mover, its all about the gearing in the traction motors.

[conrail767596]

No sale just yet, just a stream of meaningless press releases and an "intent to purchase." Lots of details to work out.

Are the tracks thru Ann Arbor Amtrak-only tracks?

Nope, the east-west line was until recently owned by Norfolk Southern, and still might be as I'm not sure when the sale to the state of Michigan is finalized. As far as I know, NS runs a pair of freights through there everyday, 38E and 39E. The north-south line which crosses the river is the Ann Arbor RR, which runs through AA largely at night.

The sale just went through today. The state of Michigan purchased quite a bit of the Detroit-Chicago line for around 150 million dollars. Michigan was also granted with 196 million dollars for extensive changes, such as replacing signals and track. The line, when finished, will allow 110 mph travel on roughly 77 percent of the line. This will make me want to go to Chicago more often . I took the Wolverine from Dearborn to Chicago over the summer, when NS placed 20 mph restrictions on most of the line... The ride was 7 1/2 hours each way... Not fun. Does this higher speed limit mean new equipment? Can P42's even go 110?

[AARR]

The sale just went through today. The state of Michigan purchased quite a bit of the Detroit-Chicago line for around 150 million dollars. Michigan was also granted with 196 million dollars for extensive changes, such as replacing signals and track. The line, when finished, will allow 110 mph travel on roughly 77 percent of the line. This will make me want to go to Chicago more often . I took the Wolverine from Dearborn to Chicago over the summer, when NS placed 20 mph restrictions on most of the line... The ride was 7 1/2 hours each way... Not fun. Does this higher speed limit mean new equipment? Can P42's even go 110?

When the line was in better shape I think they would make the trip in around 5-1/2 to 6ish hours (some other guys will know). The improvements will not significantly reduce the trip time due to the bottle neck between Porter and Chicago. The expected time improvement will be around 15-30 minutes (per interview with Amtrak representative on WJR with Paul W Smith) after the track is fixed. However, the trains between Pontiac and Chicago have some of the poorer on-time records of all the Amtrak routes, though it had been improving (increased from 39% to 69% from 2005 to 2009) until the speed restrictions were imposed due to the less than adequate condition of the track. Amtrak anticipates ridership to double (I read conflicting numbers about current ridership because not everyone rides from Pontiac to Chicago and only go part of the way). But lets say current ridership is around 1000 (Amtrak representative said on WJR interview with Paul W Smith it was under a 1000) per day so it will double to 2000. Is 196 million dollars a good investment of tax money? And, if I have read the conditions properly for accepting the 196 million, the state of MI (citizen's tax dollars) has to make up the short fall between what it costs to operate the trains and actual fees generated.

[Michigan Railfan]

The sale just went through today. The state of Michigan purchased quite a bit of the Detroit-Chicago line for around 150 million dollars. Michigan was also granted with 196 million dollars for extensive changes, such as replacing signals and track. The line, when finished, will allow 110 mph travel on roughly 77 percent of the line. This will make me want to go to Chicago more often . I took the Wolverine from Dearborn to Chicago over the summer, when NS placed 20 mph restrictions on most of the line... The ride was 7 1/2 hours each way... Not fun. Does this higher speed limit mean new equipment? Can P42's even go 110?

When the line was in better shape I think they would make the trip in around 5-1/2 to 6ish hours (some other guys will know). The improvements will not significantly reduce the trip time due to the bottle neck between Porter and Chicago. The expected time improvement will be around 15-30 minutes (per interview with Amtrak representative on WJR with Paul W Smith) after the track is fixed. However, the trains between Pontiac and Chicago have some of the poorer on-time records of all the Amtrak routes, though it had been improving (increased from 39% to 69% from 2005 to 2009) until the speed restrictions were imposed due to the less than adequate condition of the track. Amtrak anticipates ridership to double (I read conflicting numbers about current ridership because not everyone rides from Pontiac to Chicago and only go part of the way). But lets say current ridership is around 1000 (Amtrak representative said on WJR interview with Paul W Smith it was under a 1000) per day so it will double to 2000. Is 196 million dollars a good investment of tax money? And, if I have read the conditions properly for accepting the 196 million, the state of MI (citizen's tax dollars) has to make up the short fall between what it costs to operate the trains and actual fees generated.

The trip was actually supposed to be 5-5 1/2 hours. The speed restrictions weren't due to track conditions at the time, but instead NS placing the 20 mph limits because Amtrak didn't want to pay extra fines NS was charging for track maintenance (obviously higher speeds means more maintenance required). I guess I chose a bad time to go .
I did read that the improvements will only lead to about 30 minutes cut off as well. Still, much better than 7 1/2 hours. I don't think the 196 million in taxes is needed in my opinion. All they really needed to do was buy the line, and do every now-and-then maintenance (when needed). I find the 196 million in changes is a little over-the-top. The Dearborn station is also being completely re-done. I read it was (I'm pretty sure) the 4th busiest Amtrak station for 2010. I, myself, am doubting that the ridership will double though.

[Saturnalia]

Does the electric commuter lines (south shore I think) go/have acess/connections to Union Station in Chicago? Maybe its worth connecting the Wolverine and Blue water to that line to shave off time by cutting out the bottle neck of freight trains

[Jetlink]

Does the electric commuter lines (south shore I think) go/have acess/connections to Union Station in Chicago? Maybe its worth connecting the Wolverine and Blue water to that line to shave off time by cutting out the bottle neck of freight trains

The NICTD train (South Shore line) arrives at Millenium Station in Chicago not Union Station. They are both fairly convenient stations to downtown. You could make a connection between the two by walking a few blocks to the CTA blue line and riding to the Clinton station and then walking the 1/2 block to Union. But it would be a pain. The travel time on the NICTD is slower than Amtrak and it calls on many more stations. It is much more reliable to its timetable though than Amtrak IMHO.

I travel to Chicago weekly and I almost never drive there.

[Saturnalia]

Does the electric commuter lines (south shore I think) go/have acess/connections to Union Station in Chicago? Maybe its worth connecting the Wolverine and Blue water to that line to shave off time by cutting out the bottle neck of freight trains

The NICTD train (South Shore line) arrives at Millenium Station in Chicago not Union Station. They are both fairly convenient stations to downtown. You could make a connection between the two by walking a few blocks to the CTA blue line and riding to the Clinton station and then walking the 1/2 block to Union. But it would be a pain. The travel time on the NICTD is slower than Amtrak and it calls on many more stations. It is much more reliable to its timetable though than Amtrak IMHO.

I travel to Chicago weekly and I almost never drive there.

I was thinking that maybe they could divert Amtrak onto the south shore, then back to freight rails before Union Station. They would also blow through all stations on the SS

[GP30M4216]

As for predicting ridership increases on the Wolverine corridor, let's take a look at ridership at Michigan's three busiest Amtrak stations to see how it has grown in the recent era:

Ann Arbor -
2003 - 94,264
2009 - 133,454
2010 - 140,735

Kalamazoo (also including ridership from the Blue Water) -
2003 - 66,313
2009 - 112,804
2010 - 113,061

Dearborn -
2003 - 57,376
2009 - 72,407
2010 - 80,502

No new frequencies have been added during this era. Additional capacity has been added to existing trains by increasing the number of cars and therefore revenue seats per train. I don't think ridership will double unless more frequencies are added. But a reliable and slightly faster train will increase ridership further. Continuing high gas prices won't hurt either. Adding more cars would be great, but Amtrak is at about the limit of its capacity at the moment.

As for using the current South Shore route to avoid Porter and the Gary area and NS delays, no simple connections exist between the South Shore route and the present route of the Wolverine in the Chicago-Land area. The Amtrak/NS main crosses over the South Shore/Metra electric at Grand Junction, on the south side of Chicago, but no direct connection exists there. The St. Charles Air Line branches off the IC/South Shore line and diverges to the west, crossing over the Chicago River and then over the Amtrak mainlines into Union Station from the south, but getting a northbound on the South Shore into Union Station via this connection would require a timely backup move around the connector on the west side of the river, or a very expensive flyover to directly connect the two lines.

As for the tracks through Ann Arbor - yes, 6 Amtraks per day plus two daily NS road freights (one each way), and the occasional NS extra move. I believe the trackage upgrade once the State gains ownership will upgrade and replace signals, resurface the track, and update/possibly extend some passing tracks.

[GTW6401]

Theres been talk in the past of making a connection at Grand Crossing. A connection there would allow Amtrak trains running on the IC to use NS into Union Station, and avoid the long backup moves onto the St. Charles Airline.

[ns8401]

Couple of points:

1) The new time of transit is based on the 5 to 5.5 hour timetable, the recent NS work did away with speed restrictions so the 30 minute claim is based upon the idea of a 5 to 5.5 hour trip not a 7 to 7.5 hour one.

2) Amtrak plans to eventually add 6 additional trains a day for a grand total of 12. This will not occur until the Chicago projects to improve bottlenecks (I can't remember the exact name of it) are completed. Also the Michigan Line improvements will need to be done (double tracking and improved signals for 79+ operations). I wonder if ITCS will go on the Kalamazoo east stretch?

[AARR]

2) Amtrak plans to eventually add 6 additional trains a day for a grand total of 12. This will not occur until the Chicago projects to improve bottlenecks (I can't remember the exact name of it) are completed. Also the Michigan Line improvements will need to be done (double tracking and improved signals for 79+ operations). I wonder if ITCS will go on the Kalamazoo east stretch?

I have heard from a number of people, whose opinion I respect, say increasing train frequency is what is needed for Amtrak to be successful in the Detroit-Chicago corridor. Considering $196 million is being invested and MI tax payers are responsible for losses I hope, and I really do, the program is successful.

[Saturnalia]

One thing that would REALLY help would be the rebirth of the Detroit Area. That area has lost much of its former passenger and economic strengh during the recession. Also, I wonder if a new GR-Cicago service could be made. for one, the Pere Marquette leaves too late to attract most business folks, and is fairly slow. I wonder if MDOT would create a train from GR-Chi via K-zoo on GDLK trackage, or, and additional train via CSX that would be a run-through, passing all the other stations (Holland, Bangor, ect)
One of the Chicago area projects I've heard of is around Porter Junction, and that would be adding sidings so NS trains could be readily be out of the way. I also wonder if adding a dedicated Amtrak track to the NS Chicago line from Porter West would help/can be made.

[ns8401]

One thing that would REALLY help would be the rebirth of the Detroit Area. That area has lost much of its former passenger and economic strengh during the recession. Also, I wonder if a new GR-Cicago service could be made. for one, the Pere Marquette leaves too late to attract most business folks, and is fairly slow. I wonder if MDOT would create a train from GR-Chi via K-zoo on GDLK trackage, or, and additional train via CSX that would be a run-through, passing all the other stations (Holland, Bangor, ect)
One of the Chicago area projects I've heard of is around Porter Junction, and that would be adding sidings so NS trains could be readily be out of the way. I also wonder if adding a dedicated Amtrak track to the NS Chicago line from Porter West would help/can be made.

Part of the congestion improvement is a dedicated track for passenger trains, the Detroit area has been declining since the mid 1970's what you see now is the culmination of that decades long decline. It will come back but only after decades of steady improvement. Passenger traffic isn't declining it's growing...