New MDOT Rail Plan

[jimnorthwood]

I didn't look at every link, but one long-term goal that caught my eye was to move the A&B interchange point from Adrian, to Toledo. I suspect this would involve the restoration of trackage from Riga to Ottawa Lake, with A&B to get trackage rights into Airline Yard. Interesting...

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-1 ... --,00.html

[TrainWatcher]

Some of the projects listed are definately interesting under "List of Projects- Tech Memo #3".
TC-Petosky Intercity rail...
GLC track rebuilding...
LSRC Signalling for dark territory...
HESR MoW center and swing bridge rebuilding...

and like you said... the ABDF wanting trackage to Toledo.

[Saturnalia]

I'm going to assume the dark territory upgrades on LSRC wouldnt include the HURON SUB....anyone confirm that?
Some interesting stuff for sure.......see that there are a few infer structure upgrades for MQT, including a few bridges. wonder how much will actually happen.....doubt much will unless it's already in the budget. also, I noticed there was something about rerouting the PM (371, 370) through Kzoo, hmmm....

[CSX_CO]

If its anything like Indiana's it plays out like a fantasy list. Amongst Indiana's plan was reinstallation of the Monon from Medaryville to Michigan City for a new route for Southern Indiana Coal. Good luck on THAT one, parts of that railroad have been gone for probably 20+ years now.

Practice Safe CSX

[atrainguy60]

Interesting, but isn't there some kind of building in Ottawa Lake that is right on the old trackage that the ADBF would run to get to Toledo?

[Clay320]

From google maps it looks like there's room to go around it to the west, kinda like LSRC did with that walmart...

[LSRC]

I'm going to assume the dark territory upgrades on LSRC wouldnt include the HURON SUB....anyone confirm that?

I would say that the "plan" is to signal the whole Lake State, as it's all dark territory. Here's the exact quote:

Signalize dark territory to enhance operational efficiency and safety

I don't know why they want to do this. The Lake State operates just fine without signaling. It's not like they're running 8 trains a day against each other. I can understand getting money to fix things like bridges, but the idea of signals on the Lake State is stupid.



This thing on the Grand Elk got me perplexed. I didn't think the condition of the line was THAT bad.

Line was recentlyileased froim a Class 1 operator and is in very poor condition; failure to undertake project immediately could result in the line being removed from service, shippers losing rail access, and

[cnw8835]

I'm going to assume the dark territory upgrades on LSRC wouldnt include the HURON SUB....anyone confirm that?

I would say that the "plan" is to signal the whole Lake State, as it's all dark territory. Here's the exact quote:

Signalize dark territory to enhance operational efficiency and safety

I don't know why they want to do this. The Lake State operates just fine without signaling. It's not like they're running 8 trains a day against each other. I can understand getting money to fix things like bridges, but the idea of signals on the Lake State is stupid.

Agreed, beyond stupid to signal the Huron Sub. Hopefully they are only talking about the Saginaw/Bay City areas that don't have signals already.

This thing on the Grand Elk got me perplexed. I didn't think the condition of the line was THAT bad.

Line was recently leased from a Class 1 operator and is in very poor condition; failure to undertake project immediately could result in the line being removed from service, shippers losing rail access, and

It was mostly 10mph from Kzoo-GR when GDLK took over. They have already been replacing some ties and most of it is now 25mph but from what I've heard quite a bit of the line north of Kzoo still needs. "failure to undertake project immediately could result in the line being removed from service"... I'm not so sure about that though.

[Buster Manning]

Sounds like the same plan they used out in Washington....

[KenB]

Re-routing Amtrak from Grand Rapids to Kalamazoo thence to Chicago would be a very bad idea. Add a lot of time to the trip and really kill the business out of Grand Rapids.

Right now you can take the train from Grand Rapids or Holland or St. Joe to Chicago, go shopping or take care of busines than take train back and do this in one day. If you re-route the train it will kill this day business and what woud you really gain?

[SD80MAC]

Re-routing Amtrak from Grand Rapids to Kalamazoo thence to Chicago would be a very bad idea. Add a lot of time to the trip and really kill the business out of Grand Rapids.

Right now you can take the train from Grand Rapids or Holland or St. Joe to Chicago, go shopping or take care of busines than take train back and do this in one day. If you re-route the train it will kill this day business and what woud you really gain?

How would it really be any longer? If it started in Holland, went to GR then south to Kzoo, it could take advantage of the high speed running on the Amtrak owned MI Corridor west of there. Seems like it'd end up being around the same time to me.

[~Z~]

How about 2 Amtrak routes... GR to Kzoo then west... AND sort of keep the existing route, start in Holland and go south/west. Could leave Holland at 7:30am, get to Chicago earlier, and have a later departure out of Chicago to tie up at Holland's Waverly Yard at night. There's a wye within a mile of the Holland depot to turn the train around at night. People have complained of how late people arrive to Chicago from GR/Holland. Maybe have the GR train leave/arrive on a schedule opposite of the Holland train.

Of course this is an added expense and unlikely Amtrak will add a new route.

[SD80MAC]

Either way, the way they're building the new Amtrak station in GR doesn't work with any of these plans

[Racer]

Technically the new routing could be done. St. Joseph/ Benton Harbor is about a 35 minute drive from New Buffalo where the Michigan Line intersects with the GR Sub, same with Holland to Grand Rapids. The city of Grand Rapids could technically make money with buses from Holland to GR just for the Amtrak customers as a connecting service if it worked. If local citizens are against Amtrak's route change, why not conduct studies for GR's own "MI-Train" between GR and Benton Harbor? (I doubt it would happen, but thought I'd mention it.)


As for the signalling for the LSRC, I agree, too that it is completely pointless unless it's in Saginaw or Bay City because of the yards and junctions with HESR. Any signals on a shortline that runs a train (or 1 extra) a day is pointless except for approach signals into yards, Class 1 interchanges, or diamonds over other railroads. If a shortline has to make a rare meet with another train at a siding, that's what track warrants over the radio is for. Besides, doesn't LSRC already have 2 trains regularly meet somewhere on the old D&M to Grayling or something like that?

[MSchwiebert]

I can't imagine the A&B getting a traffic source that would "need" to have the restoration of track and moving the interchange to Toledo. Not to mention how long it would take to recoup the investment.

I didn't look at every link, but one long-term goal that caught my eye was to move the A&B interchange point from Adrian, to Toledo. I suspect this would involve the restoration of trackage from Riga to Ottawa Lake, with A&B to get trackage rights into Airline Yard. Interesting...

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-1 ... --,00.html

[sd70accsxt700]

I would have to guess they want to resignal the Dean Sub back to Midland, seeing as how it hauls chemicals. It might even have to be done to be compliant with PTC, and its rules for hauling hazmat.

[Saturnalia]

Here is a way to get a GR-Holland rail srvice going: Reabilitate the old Interurban!
Signalling on the LSRC north of Pinconning is stupid,
I do see a Holland-GR-K-zoo-Chicago train working...interesting idea
Whatever they do to The PM, M<AKE IT LEAVE AT 6:30 or 6:45. 7:45 from GR? Thats not going to get your business day-trip to Chicago people. Case in point: my dad dosn't take Amtrak the Chicago because the train leaves to late: 7:45. He leaves earlier from GR, arriving around 3 hours ahead of P371. I think they should time a Holland-GR-K-zoo train to meet up with a wolverine train in K-zoo for a quick transfer. Then, the Pm, could go between K-zoo and GR twice each way....also, due to minor traffic on the GDLK, there should be few delays assuming the line is in good shape. In this case, a Holland-Michigan City train would make some sense, but again, time it with a wolverine.

[KenB]

If you run a bus from Grand Rapids to Holland people would have to chage transportation modes and the delays. Runniag a train, GR to Holland and back makes no sence.
Yes, have the GR-Chicago train earlier but Holland-GR-K-zoo-Chicago?? Lot of time waisted.

[SD80MAC]

If you run a bus from Grand Rapids to Holland people would have to chage transportation modes and the delays. Runniag a train, GR to Holland and back makes no sence.
Yes, have the GR-Chicago train earlier but Holland-GR-K-zoo-Chicago?? Lot of time waisted.

The goal is to get the train off of CSX and onto Amtrak owned rails for a good portion of the trip.

[Michael]

What I think would be nice is if they restored AMTRAK service from Detroit to Toledo so that you could travel to the East Coast or down South without having to go all the way to Chicago and back.