CN Line to GM plant south of Lake Orion being used again!!!!

[David Lang]

Guys!

I'm very happy to report that CN is using their line up to the GM plant South of Lake Orion again! Today at 4:06pm I saw CN (ex GTW) 4633 crossing Brown Road Northbound with 1 WC gon. The great thing about this is that last week I went across the track at Brown road and the rail had seen use! I forgot to post, but I'm glad I saw the somewhat shinny rails again and a train to shin them up some more. I don't know what they were doing but he was moving northbound at about 10mph. That track is in good shape, so I was surprised to see him only going about 10mph.

Anyway, no autoracks yet to my knowledge (otherwise the track would be very shiny), but maybe its a sign of things to come. Just hope its not a car for old ties - what I mean here is I hope they are not ripping up track at the plant sight. Hopefully the shinny rails are due to some business again. I will try to keep us updated as I don't live too far from there now.

David Lang

[atrainguy60]

That's great! Maybe the gon was from or for the scrap yard along the line?

[GLC 392]

With it being a WC gon.... I would say possible track removal some where on that line, they usually use WC/IC and GTW gons as tie gons.

[atrainguy60]

If they aren't removing the line, then I wonder if CN will start serving the Lake Orion plant again someday.

[mike nowakowski]

As far as i know that train with the gon goes to the yard a runs around it and returns to Pontiac. And i think thats about all that uses it so far.

[GTW6401]

The line has been used the entire time to spot cars at the scrap yard on Collier Road in Auburn Hills. The 950 yard job out of Pontiac will usually switch up on the old Cass City Sub in the late afternoon.

They will often run up to Orion to run around their train since they can only switch out the scrap yard from the south, plus going to Orion Yard is also a way to prevent rusty rail conditions on the crossings.

The WC gons are for the scrap yard, so it has nothing to do with tie work or anything like that.

[Racer]

Also, there is a distributor company located right infront of the GM Lake Orion plant that (at some point) was shipping reefer cars. I'm not sure if that is still active or not.

[AARR]

Also, there is a distributor company located right infront of the GM Lake Orion plant that (at some point) was shipping reefer cars. I'm not sure if that is still active or not.

The beer distributer, Powers, stopped shipping by rail about 5 years ago. A combination of CN raising prices and not delivering the switch when they needed turned them to trucks.

Here is the rest of the story...

Powers moved from Sylvan Lake to Orion and built their dock to hold 3 cars at a time. To get the better rate to make rail worthwhile they had to order 4 cars per time. GTW would deliver the first 3 cars no problem. Getting that 4th car was a problem. Powers wanted it as soon as the first 3 were empty so they could get it off their siding and avoid dumerage. But they did not want to pay extra for the 2nd switch. GTW was willing to bring the 4th car when Powers wanted it but they wanted a hefty switch fee. These two battled for years over this. When CN raised rates about 5ish years ago Powers, along with just about every other beer distributer on CN's MI lines said forget it and switched completely over to trucks even buying their own fleet of trailers.

Yes, I know at the same time beer companies were beginning this "freshness" thing and many beer distributers used that as the reason for ending rail service. I am sure this had something to do with it.

But I think raising rates had more to do with it IMO as well as the discrpancy about switching charges.

[atrainguy60]

Someone mentioned this on another site about Lake Orion:

auto's destined for rail shipping were being taken to an off site loading facility. One has to wonder what CN did, or didn't do to piss off the minds of upper GM management. They are running 2 shifts of production there, and rail usually accounts for about half of the cars produced.

Maybe the off site loading facility is New Boston along the CSX?

[AARR]

Someone mentioned this on another site about Lake Orion:

auto's destined for rail shipping were being taken to an off site loading facility. One has to wonder what CN did, or didn't do to piss off the minds of upper GM management. They are running 2 shifts of production there, and rail usually accounts for about half of the cars produced.

Maybe the off site loading facility is New Boston along the CSX?

Correct, CSX picked up quite a few GM vehicles from CN's lines this way.

It's is probably a long story why CN lost the GM business and it may not be all CN's fault. At the time GM was in bad shape and CN has to make a decision about reupping with GM and reinvesting in the yards, etc. it takes to switch the vehicles. While I hate to see CN lose the business I can not say I blame CN in this case because at the time it looked like a bad investment and CSX had nothing to lose because New Boston has plenty of business even without GM's vehicles so they could bid aggressivley. Maybe CN can get the busness back someday

[Racer]

2 words: Hunter Harrison. That explains it.

[AARR]

2 words: Hunter Harrison. That explains it.

I am not a Hunter Harrison fan but don't blame him forr the loss of vehicles from Hamtramck and Orion.

Like I said at the time CN lost the business they were bidding against CSX and NS. CN had to put enough in their bid to cover yards, extra crews, extra engines, etc. CSX and NS did not. Plus CN had to take into consideration those plants may close (they did!) and could lose their investment. CSX and NS had nothing to lose because the yards where the cars would be loaded will continue to operate without the GM vehicles.

If you want to blame HH for driving off carload business you have a point because his goal was to make Port Huron to Chicago a racetrack and local business got in the way of his plan.

[Racer]

If you want to blame HH for driving off carload business you have a point because his goal was to make Port Huron to Chicago a racetrack and local business got in the way of his plan.

Yup, pretty much.

Losing the Orion Plant was a significant loss of traffic on the Holly Subdivision from Pontiac to Durand. That was 2 daily? trains that ran as E250/E251 if I remember correctly. These ran directly off the UP in Chicago. Many trains ran with the UP power all the way into Pontiac and went out on the following day's outbound train. Does anyone know if the trains went directly to Lake Orion with the UP power in tact or did they cut it off in Pontiac and have 950's power take the autoracks up to Lake Orion?

[conrailmike]

Any train that went to Orion Assembly was always GTW power. In all the time I worked there, I NEVER saw anything else.

When I was still working there cars were being trucked down to Sterling yard and then put on the trains. If I know GM though, if it's still cheaper to do it this way then you may not see trains come back to Orion Assembly.

[chapmaja]

Someone mentioned this on another site about Lake Orion:

auto's destined for rail shipping were being taken to an off site loading facility. One has to wonder what CN did, or didn't do to piss off the minds of upper GM management. They are running 2 shifts of production there, and rail usually accounts for about half of the cars produced.

Maybe the off site loading facility is New Boston along the CSX?

Correct, CSX picked up quite a few GM vehicles from CN's lines this way.

It's is probably a long story why CN lost the GM business and it may not be all CN's fault. At the time GM was in bad shape and CN has to make a decision about reupping with GM and reinvesting in the yards, etc. it takes to switch the vehicles. While I hate to see CN lose the business I can not say I blame CN in this case because at the time it looked like a bad investment and CSX had nothing to lose because New Boston has plenty of business even without GM's vehicles so they could bid aggressivley. Maybe CN can get the busness back someday

The only way I could see CN getting this back is if they ran the trains directly from the plant loading area. I think what killed them, based on what I read in this thread, was the fact the cars spent time in Pontiac then a different crew had to run a local/yard job up to the plant.

Thinking of other loading areas. I don't think CSX provides any service at New Boston except dropping empties and pickup loads. The switching is done by the loading companies engines.

Myabe if GM were to do the loading at Orion (or contract it) and CN only had to do the run to and run Orion to the destination, the service could come back, but I doubt that would happen.

[conrailmike]

The only thing that killed this was the haggling over prices. The contract was up and CN wanted more money, GM told them to stick it, same with Hamtramck Assembly. This was all going on around the time that GM was facing bankruptcy so I'm sure that didn't help.

Besides, when they stopped switching the plant, our vehicles weren't selling all that much anyways so I doubt it really made a difference in traffic levels. The G6 wasn't doing very well and the Malibus that we were building were overflow, so the majority of those were still coming out of Fairfax Assembly.

I do know for a fact that right now Orion is running two shifts of production with each shift running about 11 hours. Not sure what the sales are for the Sonic but the Verano is supposed to be out soon so if CN gave GM the right price, they might get the traffic back.

[AARR]

Any train that went to Orion Assembly was always GTW power. In all the time I worked there, I NEVER saw anything else.

When I was still working there cars were being trucked down to Sterling yard and then put on the trains. If I know GM though, if it's still cheaper to do it this way then you may not see trains come back to Orion Assembly.

I thought the ramps in Sterling Heights were for the Chrysler Assembly Plant that shares the lot. I did not realize the load other companies vehicles there.

[conrailmike]

Any train that went to Orion Assembly was always GTW power. In all the time I worked there, I NEVER saw anything else.

When I was still working there cars were being trucked down to Sterling yard and then put on the trains. If I know GM though, if it's still cheaper to do it this way then you may not see trains come back to Orion Assembly.

I thought the ramps in Sterling Heights were for the Chrysler Assembly Plant that shares the lot. I did not realize the load other companies vehicles there.

It is for the Chrysler plant. I'm 98% sure that's where they were loading them (and probably still are). I remember someone saying they had seen GM vehicles being loaded down there.

[AARR]

It is for the Chrysler plant. I'm 98% sure that's where they were loading them (and probably still are). I remember someone saying they had seen GM vehicles being loaded down there.

I believe you. It's probably operated by an independent group and operates much like the place in New Boston does, or in Melvindale, etc.

[bnsfben]

This is a very interesting topic for me, as the Orion Plant is the closest railroad track to my house. I saw a GTW GP9R at all three Joslyn crossings with one gon. I chased them to Orion yard and then back from Orion. We clocked them (by pacing) at 14 MPH. All of the Orion Branch is yard limits, which is 15 MPH. That is why they cannot go faster. I think the track could probably be good for 30 MPH. I'm not sure what it was like when they ran the autoracks on the branch.

As for the plant, I think that if the Sonic and the Buick Verano (?) start to pick up they will go to three shifts. Now Mike may be able to help me with this... but is it a car every 90 seconds off the line?? If it is, a 21 hour day would put it at 840 vehicles a day. Say a tri-level holds 20 vehicles (is that accurate? Just an estimate). That would make the output 42 autroracks/day. That would be enough to justify a unit train E250/E251. I think it would be reasonable if CN would run the road power straight off the Holly sub, take the wye at Pontiac and go straight to Orion... No time wasted in Pontiac. I think GM would be much happier that way. And YES, the track can handle 6 axle power. The Circus train runs on that line with six axle power every year.

I think CN has intentions with GM, because that is the only thing keeping the track on the ground between Colllier and the Orion Plant. If CN has no hope at all with GM, I think the tracks would have been gone by now. The circus train once a year doesn't bring in enough income to justify keeping that trackage. Also the signal maintence costs must be huge... especially to pay the maintainer and the maintain that huge Joslyn/Brown intersection.