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Working on updating my ATCS database for the Plymouth Sub.

I'm looking for the following milepost locations for:

E&W end Lake Odessa
E&W end Elmdale
Alto
E&W end Fox

And lastly where the Plymouth Sub ends and the Grand Rapids Sub begins.

Thanks!
Bob

Grand Rapids TERMINAL subdivision meets the Plymouth Sub at CH 148.1 (Seymour)

Alto (the station sign) is CH 133.4

That's all I've got.

East end Lako Odessa is 120.4
West End Lake Odessa is 121.8 I believe.
East End Elmdale should be 130.4
West West End of Elmdale is roughly 131.5 or 131.6.
The intermediate signal at Alto is 134.4 I believe.

I will have to dig up some other info to find Fox.

Thanks for the information. I've went through all of the info I have and the last ETT I have is 1994. Some things have changed since then.

Bob

Thanks for the catch on TERMINAL. Was thinking it and not typing it......

We are only as good as the information we have.....

Bob

I have FOX CH 142.5 but no east / west. GP30M4216 had a great Multiply website (no longer updated) with all the CSXT Michigan Sub information:
chessiechapter.multiply.com/journal/item/340
While the written info is still there, I was not able to connect to the subdivision links that showed the mile marker info. Perhaps you could PM him.

Someone help me here...this is something I've been pondering for a while: How do they (train crews, track inspector, MOW, etc) know the exact MP location when talking to a dispatcher? I see mile posts every mile, but how are they able to give their locations in tenth of a mile increments?

J T wrote:Someone help me here...this is something I've been pondering for a while: How do they (train crews, track inspector, MOW, etc) know the exact MP location when talking to a dispatcher? I see mile posts every mile, but how are they able to give their locations in tenth of a mile increments?

I've thought the same thing. I know they haven't added 1/10 mile markers like we do on the highways (stupid). My best guess so far is that they know their closest milepost and estimate where they are in relation to it. Then again, all of the crossings have the locations marked on them for the public's emergency contact hotline. So maybe its as simple as that.

pudgy wrote:

J T wrote:Someone help me here...this is something I've been pondering for a while: How do they (train crews, track inspector, MOW, etc) know the exact MP location when talking to a dispatcher? I see mile posts every mile, but how are they able to give their locations in tenth of a mile increments?

I've thought the same thing. I know they haven't added 1/10 mile markers like we do on the highways (stupid). My best guess so far is that they know their closest milepost and estimate where they are in relation to it. Then again, all of the crossings have the locations marked on them for the public's emergency contact hotline. So maybe its as simple as that.

I think that they use the more specific milepost locations when they are at, say, a station or end of a siding. When Q334 reports in for their EC-1, they always just give a whole milepost. Now, I've heard them get it while at Fox and they said 142.3 before...

J T wrote:Someone help me here...this is something I've been pondering for a while: How do they (train crews, track inspector, MOW, etc) know the exact MP location when talking to a dispatcher? I see mile posts every mile, but how are they able to give their locations in tenth of a mile increments?

Those pesky pole lines that you complain about are perfect for that. The B&O had 40 poles per mile, the C&O had 32 per mile IIRC.

I have a working layout of the Plymouth Sub. I worked with Mark Landgraf to develop the layout (2007 time frame). If you want the files, I will be happy to send it to you.

Kerry

Tracks charts are pretty detailed. All the physical attributes, signals, crossings, culverts etc, have the milepost to the 1/100 of a mile. I would think it's fairly easy to approximate the 1/10 of a mile

Raildudes dad wrote:Tracks charts are pretty detailed. All the physical attributes, signals, crossings, culverts etc, have the milepost to the 1/100 of a mile. I would think it's fairly easy to approximate the 1/10 of a mile

So when someone is giving a detailed 1/10th of a mile location, they are reading it off a track chart?

I would have thought they would be using GPS or some other type of hi tech tracking system by now like they do with trucks.

Michael wrote:I would have thought they would be using GPS or some other type of hi tech tracking system by now like they do with trucks.

Why waste the money on a GPS system? The track doesn't move very far or very often. A mile post on a known line and direction of travel is all you need. I do not see the railroads eliminating the track occupancy circuits anytime soon.

J T wrote:

Raildudes dad wrote:Tracks charts are pretty detailed. All the physical attributes, signals, crossings, culverts etc, have the milepost to the 1/100 of a mile. I would think it's fairly easy to approximate the 1/10 of a mile

So when someone is giving a detailed 1/10th of a mile location, they are reading it off a track chart?

Most rails know their territory like the back of their hand. No track charts, cheat sheets, timetables needed. We can awaken from a deep sleep mid-trip and know exactly where we're at. On UP, we have 1/4 mile posts and those help out a little bit, but it's mostly just knowing your territory. As well as code line poles like Typhoon said. That generation of railroaders is largely gone, but this is how the word "mile post" was coined, also sometimes referred to as "mile POLE."

But think about this: when you drive to work, or the store, or your parents house, you don't look at signs, street names, etc. Your brain automatically knows how to get there using landmarks, past experience, repetition and what not. That's much the way it is for us on the rails...

Thanks for the post, Tops. So, I guess it's safe to assume that when someone says they are at "48.7," it could very well be 48.5, 48.8, or 48.6. Makes sense now. I was just wondering if they had some kind of electronic device similar to GPS that would give their precise coordinates along the rails. But now I know...it's just an educated guess.

Are not the number boards on signals to the tenth or even hundredth of a mile? IIRC a signal mast has a number board of 197, is that not mile 19point7? Bridges, culverts, and other immovable structures are also identified to the hundredth. As Mr. Tops said, after a while, you just know where you are.

All goes back to the val maps and track charts drawn from the orignal survey. The earliest civil engineers were the engineers that designed the RR bridges and worked with the surveyors to lay out the alignment . Civil engineers are cool

Raildudes dad wrote:All goes back to the val maps and track charts drawn from the orignal survey. The earliest civil engineers were the engineers that designed the RR bridges and worked with the surveyors to lay out the alignment . Civil engineers are cool

The same people that brought you the S-curve and the US-131 I-96 interchange. Oh, and lets not forget the GR waste water system with it's propensity for discharging untreated waste water into the Grand River. Sorry, I have not had a chance to take a shot at an engineer lately. One of my favorite hobbies