Sodium Chlorate Hoppers

[Proto48Patrick]

Back when Sappi Paper was running, they would getting inbound loads of salt via an aluminum sodium chlorate hopper car. Does anyone know of any other industry in the area that gets these cars? I need to measure one up and scrathbuild a few so any help would be great!

Thanks

[Racer]

I have seen many of these on the CP trains that run via NS, but not at any local industries from what I have seen.

[railohio]

They show up on CP and CN in Wisconsin, too:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/railohio/8455188346/

[Proto48Patrick]

Thanks you guys, Specifically Im looking for the "older version" like in the photo.

I have not seen any like this car over here in Grand Rapids.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

I see the type of car in the first photo passing through Port Huron on the GTW on a regular basis. They seem to just be on the through trains though, so the paper mills here apparently don't use them.

For what it's worth.

[Standard Railfan]

I worked in the forest products industry for a number of years.

You will probably only find cars of sodium chlorate at PULP mills. The NaClO3 is used to bleach pulp. You could see it used at a recycle mill, but I do not think that is very common.

There are very few pulp mills left in Michigan. IIRC, PCA in Manistee is the only pulp mill left in lower Michigan and New Page in Escanaba and Verso in Quinnesec are the last pulp mills left in Upper Michigan

[Super Chief]

I also worked in the paper industry at the Johnson Corp for 35 years. We sold rotary pressure joints to all the mills you listed plus all the closed ones. It was a shame so many rail customers were lost. But they only keep the most efficient mills open now. I think Munising imports all their pulp. How CN keeps going 80 plus miles from Trout Lake to Munising is beyond me? Wisconsin also lost a lot of mills. Saw lots of Soo Line action when I was travelling that state. You bring in hats and donuts to the mill people every morning and they are customers for life. Always went in the back door to every mill and had my work and orders for product by 8:00 AM. Now it's all e-mail and no person to person anymore.

[Standard Railfan]

I hear that Super Chief, you hardly can even get into a mill even if you know someone.

The CN line to Munising has a bit more going on than just Munising paper. The Timber Products veneer mill at "Forest Center" fka "Chapman" still receives and ships a few carloads. A few carloads of logs are loaded out on the various spurs along the route. The bottom line is the mill in Munising makes and sells very high value products and is able to pay what ever CN needs to keep the line open.

[AARR]

The bottom line is the mill in Munising makes and sells very high value products and is able to pay what ever CN needs to keep the line open.

Interesting insight. To us average railfans all mills are equal but that's not the case. I think Munising gets inbound pulp and slurry and ships out some finsihed product.

[Super Chief]

Talk about high value we sold to a mill in Pa. The only one that makes the paper the US currency is printed on. High security there. All the Abitibi Mills in Canada were good for us also. If I remember Munising imports all pulp as the paper there is a high grade type and I think Quinnisec is the source for them. They are lucky Neenah kept it open with all the Kimberly Clark mills that closed around the US. New Page has had a checkered history since it was Mead also. Let's hope for the best for what's left.

[Super Chief]

Forgot to that we shipped to railroads are other steam related products. Called on Amtrak Beech Grove shops and was rewarded with a big order for energy saving liqui-movers for their shop complex. GE Erie bought our sight flows for every locomotive they made and used them on their fuel systems. They may still but I've been gone now since 2009. Just got an email from NKP 765 that their going around horseshoe curve again this summer for 3 days in May. Public gan ride all the trips.

[AARR]

If I remember Munising imports all pulp as the paper there is a high grade type and I think Quinnisec is the source for them. They are lucky Neenah kept it open with all the Kimberly Clark mills that closed around the US.

Why does a mill operate someplace where they have to ship in wood pulp (rather than pulp wood)? Why wouldn't they have their own wood pulp operation in the plant?

[Norm]

AARR,

This from Wikipedia.

Paper mills can be fully integrated mills or nonintegrated mills. Integrated mills consist of a pulp mill and a paper mill on the same site. Such mills receive logs or wood chips and produce paper.

Must be the one in this discussion is the non-integrated variety.

[Super Chief]

AARR thanks for the research on this. Right you are on whether they are integrated or not. Mead Escanaba now New Page gets there pulp via Gulliver so CN hauls the cars from Gulliver to Escanaba. Same for the plant in Manistique. Sappi in Muskegon hauled in pulp to its mill. Cheybogan was a tissue mill and did not need pulp. Ontonagon had on line sources for pulp also around Sawyer so MILW Road hauled it up to the mill. Munising may have had local sources years ago but the last few years I haven't seen any pulp cars at Seney or Shingleton. So they have to import all there product. The lakers still bring in coal to Munising but I have never seen any pulp off loaded from a laker up there. I'm sure there are more sources for pulp then what I've mentioned, but the mill must have the means to grind up the pulp wood and the digesters to treat it to be used in the end.

[CAT345C]

PCA in Manistee doesn't get in anything like that. Once in a while a tank of something shows up and they get soda ash in hoppers every so often. If they do get it its via truck.

[AARR]

I don't know if the still get solium chlorate cars or not but a paper plant in Port Huron, Eddy(?), used to get them.

[railohio]

I saw some like the first photo on both CN and CP today.

[Proto48Patrick]

wish I could get an hour or so to get some measurements.

[Raildudes dad]

This any help? http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rspict ... ?id=690898

[Proto48Patrick]

This any help? http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rspict ... ?id=690898

I appreciate the help, but I need to get real measurements to draw this sucker up in 3D CAD. I have over 10 hours into field measurements for a CR Coilshield car. I'm kinda particular..lol