GR to Kzoo Route State Plan Question

[wyrickj]

I always wondered why the state rail plan had the idea to do such thing if it needed a lot of investment? Do you guys think rerouting the amtrak PM service to the GRI line would be the best move for future service even 30 years down the road? I guess maybe it's might be a good idea if Mr. Ward says not on my tracks or it might be easier to go east as well. What's your take on the state's idea?

[J T]

Do you guys think rerouting the amtrak PM service to the GRI line would be the best move for future service even 30 years down the road? I guess maybe it's might be a good idea if Mr. Ward says not on my tracks or it might be easier to go east as well.

[conrailman75]

Why on earth would they want to route a train up the GR&I from K-zoo to Grand Rapids? Is the state seriously considering this idea? They have lost their mind if they are. First lets take into account that a connection track has to be built at BO Tower for them to even get onto the GR&I off the old MC. Second, what extra revenue would they pick up from customers at K-zoo? Those folks can simply drive up to Grand Rapids on US 131 if they want to visit GR. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[Saturnalia]

I think in the opinion world, we've kicked this thing from Grand Rapids to Chicago and the general consensus is that a GR&I routing just doesn't work aside from connecting with the Wolverines. In general, it would be best for ridership and the service as a whole to keep the CSX routing.

[CSX_CO]

I think in the opinion world, we've kicked this thing from Grand Rapids to Chicago and the general consensus is that a GR&I routing just doesn't work aside from connecting with the Wolverines. In general, it would be best for ridership and the service as a whole to keep the CSX routing.

But, what is best for CSX doesn't play into the equation?

Just out of curiosity, are there any TIH/PIH cars that run between GR and Chicago?

Practice Safe CSX

[AARR]

Just out of curiosity, are there any TIH/PIH cars that run between GR and Chicago?

I've seen Ammonia and LPG at customers east of Grand Rapids but I can't confirm if they go west to Chicago or east to Toledo.

[J T]

But, what is best for CSX doesn't play into the equation?

How much extra revenue does CSX get from Amtrak using their rails?

[CSX_CO]

But, what is best for CSX doesn't play into the equation?

How much extra revenue does CSX get from Amtrak using their rails?

From what I've been told, the money they get for 'on time running' doesn't usually cover the cost of the additional high rail inspections required to run passenger trains over a route. Let alone begin to cover the costs of keeping a route up to 79mph running for them, if its not needed for normal freight operations.

Practice Safe CSX

[SD80MAC]

There aren't many places on the CSX portion of the Pere Marquette's route where the train can do 79, IIRC. Lots of curves.

[trnwatcher]

The other consideration is ridership. The last stats I saw is that over 50% of the Pere Marquette's ridership comes from passengers that board in Holland. That covers alot of riders from the lakeshore that are not going to drive to GR to grab the train when they could just drive to Chicago. Outside of a stop in Wayland for the casino there would be little ridership coming from areas along the old GR&I route that aren't already going to Kalamazoo or Battle Creek to catch one on the Michigan service trains.

[Schteinkuh]

There aren't many places on the CSX portion of the Pere Marquette's route where the train can do 79, IIRC. Lots of curves.

I don't think there is one at all. I thought 60 to MAYBE 70 at most.

[Saturnalia]

There aren't many places on the CSX portion of the Pere Marquette's route where the train can do 79, IIRC. Lots of curves.

I don't think there is one at all. I thought 60 to MAYBE 70 at most.

There are some 79 stretches south of St. Joseph. IIRC, there are a few 70 sections between SJM and HOM, but only 60 from HOM to GRR due to curves and population centers.

[rob]

all the 79 mph in Indiana, the fastest speed on CSX in Michigan is 65. ( from the CSX timetable)

Rob Brown
CSX conductor/engineer/RCO

[CSX_CO]

There are some 79 stretches south of St. Joseph. IIRC, there are a few 70 sections between SJM and HOM, but only 60 from HOM to GRR due to curves and population centers.

CSX 'downgraded' the Monon Sub in Indiana to 40mph running for freights, so Class III from Class IV on that sub. This means AMTRAK is limited to 60 mph from their prior 79 mph on the Monon. Freight operations didn't warrant the additional expense of the higher class standard. AMTRAK was 'up in arms' because of this. CSX stated their payments to maintain the 'on time' status of the Hoosier State and Cardinal didn't cover the costs they would incur to keep it to Class IV standards.

At what point does CSX say the same thing with the Pere Marquette? There isn't any really 'time sensitive' stuff through Michigan. 40 mph running would probably suit the coal trains, grain trains, and freight trains just fine without really hampering operations.

That might be a point when AMTRAK would explore running to K-zoo to reach the Michigan Line, the 110 mph running, and AMTRAK under their own dispatchers free of freight train interference.

Additionally, PTC will be a 'game changer' in how new routes and services are planned.

CSX's 'easement' on the LIRC will not require PTC. It is stated in the agreement that whichever party begins service that would trigger the need for PTC, will be the one to incur the cost of installing it for BOTH tennants. Should AMTRAK wish to start service again over the LIRC, THEY (through the LIRC) will be required to pay the cost of equipping the line.

I don't know if the Pere Marquette already meets the tonnage and the PIH/TIH requirements, but if it doesn't, it wouldn't surprise me if CSX asks AMTRAK to bear the cost of installation on a line that wouldn't already need it.

Practice Safe CSX