Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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PM1946
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Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

Unread post by PM1946 »

Here's the story from WOOD TV-8....
http://woodtv.com/2014/02/27/amtrak-tra ... f-holland/

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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PM1946 wrote:Here's the story from WOOD TV-8....
http://woodtv.com/2014/02/27/amtrak-tra ... f-holland/
CSX sent a rescue locomotive to the scene, and it arrived at 10:30 p.m. The locomotive hooked up to the stuck train and pulled it free. Around 11 p.m., the Amtrak train was moving, but not toward its destination.

The Amtrak train was pulled back about 10 miles where it was put on another side track, Olsen said. At that point, a more powerful freight train plowed the tracks clear, allowing the Amtrak train to continue on its way to Holland and then Grand Rapids.
Huh? So as I'm reading this, it was pulled out of the siding at East Saugatuck, but then was backed down to Wells? For what? A "freight train" (I'm assuming 327) made it through on the main before 370 was pushed out of the siding, so why couldn't it continue east on the main after the switches were realigned?

The CSX unit obviously came down the main at ES to enter into the west end of the siding to pull 370 out, so why couldn't they proceed eastward?

Some important details are missing from this article.
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

Unread post by CSX_CO »

J T wrote: The CSX unit obviously came down the main at ES to enter into the west end of the siding to pull 370 out, so why couldn't they proceed eastward?

Some important details are missing from this article.
Without being privy to seeing the CAD screens that night, perhaps AMTRAK stalled without clearing the west end of the siding? So, the WB freight is coming down to meet them and is holding the main. Once AMTRAK stalls, they need EB power to come up from behind, and drag AMTRAK back west to the next siding. Trains can then continue east towards GR.

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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Typhoon wrote:Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.
Proof positive it isn't rocket science, it is just railroading...

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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CSX_CO wrote: Without being privy to seeing the CAD screens that night, perhaps AMTRAK stalled without clearing the west end of the siding?
Sounds like it.
So, the WB freight is coming down to meet them and is holding the main. Once AMTRAK stalls, they need EB power to come up from behind, and drag AMTRAK back west to the next siding. Trains can then continue east towards GR.
So is this "more powerful freight train" the same one they met at ES which forced them into the siding in the first place? The reporter makes it sound like two freight trains were involved. And I wonder where the east bound power came from.
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

Unread post by CSX_CO »

J T wrote: So is this "more powerful freight train" the same one they met at ES which forced them into the siding in the first place? The reporter makes it sound like two freight trains were involved. And I wonder where the east bound power came from.
:roll:

Yes, there would have had to be a WB freight and an EB freight. EB power would have had to come from behind and drag AMTRAK back west to Wells. EB freight train power would have had to tie back onto their train at Wells, and then continue east ahead of AMTRAK to clear the path. AMTRAK could then follow that train east. Meanwhile, the WB freight on the main at Saugatuck just has to sit while all this goes on.

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Saturnalia
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

Unread post by Saturnalia »

I wanna know why Amtrak is meeting a WB freight at Saugatuck in the first place...there is a siding in Holland, and any coal trains could certainly wait up at the plant...?
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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MQT3001 wrote:I wanna know why Amtrak is meeting a WB freight at Saugatuck in the first place...there is a siding in Holland, and any coal trains could certainly wait up at the plant...?
Because it is CSX's railroad, and they'll do as they please with it. To be frank, it is really none of your business why they were going in at Saugatuk.

Oh wait...I forgot about all the arm chair STO's we have on here...

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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MQT3001 wrote:I wanna know why Amtrak is meeting a WB freight at Saugatuck in the first place...there is a siding in Holland, and any coal trains could certainly wait up at the plant...?
Because sidings were built to allow trains to pass each other? Guess I'm missing your point about why railroads should avoid using a legitimate siding. Siding turned out to have a big drift in it, oh well.
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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CSX_CO wrote: :roll:

Yes, there would have had to be a WB freight and an EB freight. EB power would have had to come from behind and drag AMTRAK back west to Wells. EB freight train power would have had to tie back onto their train at Wells, and then continue east ahead of AMTRAK to clear the path. AMTRAK could then follow that train east. Meanwhile, the WB freight on the main at Saugatuck just has to sit while all this goes on.

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No reason for the eye roll. You're the railroading expert, not me, hence my inquiry into the procedure which allowed 370 to continue on its way. And since this happened in an area that I'm very familiar with, I just find it especially interesting.
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Saturnalia
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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~Z~ wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:I wanna know why Amtrak is meeting a WB freight at Saugatuck in the first place...there is a siding in Holland, and any coal trains could certainly wait up at the plant...?
Because sidings were built to allow trains to pass each other? Guess I'm missing your point about why railroads should avoid using a legitimate siding. Siding turned out to have a big drift in it, oh well.
I say this because generally, dispatchers keep the freights out of the way of Amtrak if they can. I'm wondering what circumstances made the RN setup the meet the way they did...not out for blows, just curious.

So basically, was there room for the freight somewhere around Holland, and if so why push the issue at Saugatuck, forcing Amtrak to make a slow, 10-mph pass through a siding in the best of times.
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

Unread post by NSSD60M »

CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:I wanna know why Amtrak is meeting a WB freight at Saugatuck in the first place...there is a siding in Holland, and any coal trains could certainly wait up at the plant...?
Because it is CSX's railroad, and they'll do as they please with it. To be frank, it is really none of your business why they were going in at Saugatuk.

Oh wait...I forgot about all the arm chair STO's we have on here...

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Kind of funny how a 15 (or whatever..) year old kid can maintain civility and a 30-something year old hot shot has to fire off with half cocked responses and put downs all the time.

Anyway, the host railroad is free to do as they want, whether it means biting and delaying their priority shipments, or taking the fine and putting Amtrak in the hole somewhere. Not really sure what is considered priority shipments on that line, but when I was running the NS Chicago Line, we'd often be told we were going to hold for a mail train to get around, if we were running behind and happened to be in the same time frame as the westbound mail was coming into the picture.
The Chief is sitting behind the scenes making those calls, so whatever happens on his/her watch, the monkey can fall on those shoulders. Just the volatile situations of railroading, no need to be feeling high and mighty and putting down railfans that want to know. But some never grow out of that phase I suppose...

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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NSSD60M wrote:, or taking the fine and putting Amtrak in the hole somewhere.
The fine? Now that is funny...

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

Unread post by dmitzel »

Ditto the maturity, er... civility observation NS. No need for some to constantly play "whack-a-mole" every time a (younger) 'fan poses a question. It drags the whole board down.
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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Asking why train movements occur as they do is certainly a fair question. Just curiosity, planning a more realistic HO pike or trying to understand movements to better predict how to best chase a train, it doesn't matter. This is after all a fan site.

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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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I'm glad MQT3001 doesn't let the condescending comments drive him away like it has some others. I enjoy his posts. Maybe once he gets his license he can make a meet so everyone will see he's a pretty good guy...I hope :P :lol:
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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I enjoy his posts and videos too. I ignore the cheap shots, and snide remarks too. Some people are just not happy. Like dogs, some wag their tails, some snarl at you. I'm just glad I'm not them. :lol:
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

Unread post by CSX_CO »

NSSD60M wrote: Kind of funny how a 15 (or whatever..) year old kid can maintain civility and a 30-something year old hot shot has to fire off with half cocked responses and put downs all the time.
I guess you never saw the behavior of the (then) 13 year old in the chat. There is a reason why he has been ban hammered from the chat for so long. He lost my respect years ago, and will probably never garner it back.

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Saturnalia
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Re: Pere Marquette stuck in the snow

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CSX_CO wrote:I guess you never saw the behavior of the (then) 13 year old in the chat. There is a reason why he has been ban hammered from the chat for so long. He lost my respect years ago, and will probably never garner it back.
I do not hold you nor anyone else here for anything that happened two years ago, nor even a few days ago. It is not correct. It is not worth it.

I'm here for the trains.

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