MDOT and the WallyWorld/Flying Pig Express

[NYCMan]

Looks like the Michigan Legislature is none too happy with MDOT over news reports exposing the millions wasted on the WallyWorld/Flying Pig Express cars.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politic ... /23180661/

If I were a betting man, I'd be wiling to bet there will be a couple of sudden departures of a few folks at MDOT over this fiscal calamity. It gives me absolutely zero confidence int he leadership of MDOT to read that the Director of MDOT cannot affirmatively explain why the decision to dump money into the Flying Pig Express was a good idea. Instead, he appears to have done a tap dance. Fred Astaire he ain't!

I notice that the folks at GLC are being very tight lipped about the whole situation, which is probably wise. After all, they do have the right to remain silent, so that nothing they say can be used against them.

[AARR]

I don't think Federated/GLC has done anything illegal. GLC was approached to provide a service and agreed and charged a mutually agreed price. Unless it can be proven their were back door deals made for Federated/GLC to get the business. It may be bad press that GLC is involved but it's MDOT (or whomever) authorized this project that wasted tax dollars.

[Ypsi]

Before we start arguing about the tax dollars don't forget:

He stressed the money spent on the project could not have been spent on Michigan's battered roads or crumbling bridges, because the money came from the Comprehensive Transportation Fund, which is allocated for intercity transit and rail projects.

So the money is for rail projects. Not pot holes, not roads.. Rail projects.

That being said the timeline of this has sucked.. It was spring of 2010, then the next year and so and so on. Then it was specials trains and now there's no clear end to the studies. But the second track will be an improvement and step closer to something actually coming from this whole thing..

[PatAzo]

Another MDOT Wally Train thread...woo hoo.

[Steve B]

And there are plenty of less "pie in the sky" projects this dedicated rail/transit money could have been spent on instead. A tiny fraction could have been used to repaint the window trim at Durand. It needs it! Also a new platform for East Lansing to replace the crumbling current one. Replacing that platform is NOT included in the funds allocated for the new "Multimodal Gateway." Or spend it all on a new station for Ann Arbor. That would have been a concrete achievement.

It's funny how it's often easier for government to spend millions on a project with open-ended, ill-defined goals and timelines, instead of on concise, smaller projects. Not as sexy, I guess.

[Saturnalia]

I second the motion, Steve! It seems that politicans are much better at signing off on grand, potentially beneficial multi-million dollar initiatives than common-sense expenditures and appropriations for things such as street repair or money to repair a public building.

[J T]

Before we start arguing about the tax dollars don't forget:

He stressed the money spent on the project could not have been spent on Michigan's battered roads or crumbling bridges, because the money came from the Comprehensive Transportation Fund, which is allocated for intercity transit and rail projects.

So the money is for rail projects. Not pot holes, not roads.. Rail projects.

Yet another example of how this system is broken. "Hey, we have all this money allocated to these pointless projects, we might as well waste....err...spend it!"

[ConrailMan5]

Since the inception of major railroad projects they have been government subsidized going back to the transcontinental railroad in 1863. Its not a new concept, yet people seem to dread that kind of spending. They hold china and Europe as the standards, but don't want to spend the amount of money needed to get to that level. But I Digress, my point is these projects go nowhere if people do not get behind them. The MI Train is a victim of this phenomenon. Rather than support the project, people spend so much time worrying about the environment and how much it costs etc. Don't get me wrong, we should worry about the environment and costs getting out of hands. My point is, we spend too much time looking at the negative, and miss the positive and potential of a project. Projects drag on an on as opposition mounts and costs follow suit.
Sometimes I believe most taxpayers would rather the government take all the tax revenue, put it in a giant field, and never spend it. That way, people know where it is and what it is doing at all times. That way, they know it is not being "wasted"

And on the smaller projects, people forget that being a politician is a job. Unlike normal jobs, whether or whether not you come back depends on what the voters think you accomplished last term. So given the choice, would you open a park or fix up a dilapidated station in XYZ small-town MI. Or would you attempt to complete Big, Highly Visible, Project A? So rather than allocate monies for these as important but significantly smaller and less visible projects, they go for what gets voters attention. Even if it is polarizing, publicity is publicity.

[Saturnalia]

Going back to the TC RR? Try the Michigan Central, or the other early Michigan railroads! Plus other states...

While this $$$ might be set to rail, if it wasn't wasted on Wally maybe it could have been spent on something better for rail or moved to a different area like potholes...they can change the law, you know!

[ConrailMan5]

Going back to the TC RR? !

Not that it is relevant to the conversation, but the transcontinental railroad was funded using land grant subsidies.

[Raildudes dad]

The first consultant gold plated the project in the study. I'll bet the 2nd $600,000 plus study will platinum plate it. . Only the consultants are benefiting from this project

[NYCMan]

One does not need to hold a Ph.D. degree to realize that the upcoming "Show and Tell" presentation is for purposes of damage control and propaganda. You can be certain that the paid consultants there will be issuing a report claiming "resounding support from the one million attendees present....this project needs to press ahead with urgent speed!!!!", whilst the local news media will likely be more accurate in their reports of luke warm enthusiasm from a hundred or so present. And, you can count on a few folks from MDOT being present, who need to keep their jobs, trying to pump up the enthusiasm of the crowd.

What I am wondering is how much longer our "business smart" Governor Snyder is going to sit idly by and let this folly continue before he gives well-deserved pink slips to a few of the higher-ups at MDOT who are so arrogant to believe that they can flush away tens of millions of tax dollars without any accountability. If Governor Snyder proves to me that he is a real man, I'd vote for him for President of the USA. We need someone who knows how to hold people ACCOUNTABLE with the taxpayer's dollars.

There is a saying that really is appropriate here. HEADS WILL ROLL!

Long live the Flying Pig Express!

[Ypsi]

Where is the amount "flush away tens of millions of tax dollars" derived from? I'm just chrious as I have never read of that much being used on any state rail projects that have gone basically no where (the Michigan line has received a lot of money but there's actually stuff getting done..)

[Ben Higdon]

I'm no expert on the topic but it seems like the root of the wastefulness is Washington. The amount of federal money leached out to the state level is such a waste. Its viewed as a gift or windfall at the state level. "Better use this money somehow or we'll lose it!"

Not sure if this is exactly relevant, but it reminds me of the highway cameras and huge electronic billboards that were installed on the interstates on SE Michigan five or so years ago. I can't imagine what the price tag was to install all that crap, and then the yearly maintenance and monitoring, so that I can be informed every day it still takes the same number of minutes to get to downtown Detroit via I94 or M14. (I see these things on a daily basis and have benefited a couple times-not enough in my opinion to get excited about) Is there someone at a desk 24 hours a day to change the travel time from 11 minutes to 12 minutes when traffic slows? Whats their salary? :/

I have heard a few stories of federal money being rejected at the state level (not by MI). I agree there's no excuse for agencies like MDOT pissing it away. Wish there was more publicity directed at Washington, to discourage it in the future.

[NYCMan]

YpsiBoy asks where "tens of millions" comes from. The Free Press has detailed that over $12 Million has been spent by MDOT on the Flying Pig Express (MiTrain) with $3000 per day still being spent and that MDOT just extended that contract again last week. There was some noise a while back into the $60 Million that MDOT on the Talgo equipment which, just like the Flying Pig Express stuff, has not been used, and does not look like it will get put to use in our lifetimes. (Mine is shorter than yours.) And, there is the money which MDOT has spent preparing for commuter rail service between Ann Arbor and Howell, even before required environmental studies have been done. And, there is the plan to spend $250 Million (I read that number on this board earlier this week) on service between Ann Arbor and Traverse City.

You know, now that I think about it, it is not tens of millions. Soon, it will be BILLIONS.

Probably would be cheaper buying each and every household in Michigan their own private Cessna 172 aircraft.

[PatAzo]

The Wally train supporters originally estimated startup costs at around I believe $3M and projected ridership at over 800,000 per year. The first study made on the Wally service put the startup cost at over $30M. The studies have placed initial ridership at 1300 per day, about half the 800K per year projected by supporters. They also noted that 85% of those would be U of M employees on subsidized fares. The studies have put the fare box at recovering 30% of the operating cost and the rest needing to come from the tax payers. Hardly gold plated reports.

It was no secret that MDOT was lining up commuter equipment. They were putting request for proposals out in 2010 (a public document). In 2011 MDOT reported to the House of Representatives and the Senate appropriations subcommittees and the state budget director that they were entering into a lease agreement with the GLC. The legislature can act shocked but they require MDOT to report on their activities along the states portion of the old Ann Arbor.
GLC isn’t saying much because there isn’t much to say. MDOT put out an RFP and they won the contract. They are in the railroad business. GLC’s obligation is to supply the equipment and they have done that.

Aside from the rolling stock MDOT has spent $5M+/- rehabilitating track and crossings, $600K on a siding and $10M replacing rail. Wally supporters proclaim $16M in work for the commuter service is already complete. Others says the siding would serve the Wally service and most of the rest needed to be done anyway.

I see where MDOT went to Indianapolis inspect the Talgo train sets but nothing on actually entering into a lease. Is there something published on this hear say?

The presentation on passenger service to Traverse City is being on by the Michigan Land Use Institute who happen to be located in Traverse City. Service to Traverse City is in the state rail plan list of potential projects along with 135 others. In the 2011 state rail plan MDOT reports Traverse City as the number one destination respondents identified for increased or improved rail service. That was a whole 93 people.

So if 93 people can have a voice in state government you can too. Look up who your legislators are and write them. Go to MDOT’s state rail plan website and look for “Get Involved”. There is a spot to send them your comments. Take a moment and write an informed letter or email.

[JStryker722]

To be fair,Wally and MiTrain is two different projects held up by two different reasons. Wally is held up by stiff after wasteful study. MiTrain commuter service between Detroit and Ann Arbor has completed most studies and is merely waiting on funding and the 2nd main between Dearborn and Wayne before MDOT/Amtrak will allow it to start up. The bi-level cars are meant for both protiental projects,not just Wally. I believe MiTrain had/has a solid chance of making it off the ground vs. Wally and will need that equipment sooner or later. I believe that while MDOT couldve waited until funding and approval to start one of the projects to purchase passenger cars,having them now isn't wasteful money as the idea was that the cars would be ready to roll when approval is given. Worst comes to worst,IMHO you could have Amtrak use them to supplement Amtrak national equipment on the Wolverine until the commuter trains start.

[Raildudes dad]

Hardly gold plated reports.

Have read the report? The $30M estimate was the gold plating. You don't need all welded rail, fully gated crossing, high speed, CTC, and full stations to do a trial service for a couple years.

[Ypsi]

To be fair,Wally and MiTrain is two different projects held up by two different reasons. Wally is held up by stiff after wasteful study. MiTrain commuter service between Detroit and Ann Arbor has completed most studies and is merely waiting on funding and the 2nd main between Dearborn and Wayne before MDOT/Amtrak will allow it to start up. The bi-level cars are meant for both protiental projects,not just Wally. I believe MiTrain had/has a solid chance of making it off the ground vs. Wally and will need that equipment sooner or later. I believe that while MDOT couldve waited until funding and approval to start one of the projects to purchase passenger cars,having them now isn't wasteful money as the idea was that the cars would be ready to roll when approval is given. Worst comes to worst,IMHO you could have Amtrak use them to supplement Amtrak national equipment on the Wolverine until the commuter trains start.

They were talking about using a set for the Kzoo Chicago run this year at thanksgiving time.. nothing came of it. Most of what they say is neat and what they basically have no choice of saying.. but the only things that have come true so far are the displays they have scheduled in various towns along the routes. I agree they should have taken one project at a time.. It would have saved them money and given people half as much to be mad about

[59caddy]

This is the place where any and all concerns relating to this project can be sent to the proper recipient: http://www.nsrailstudy.com/