MOW show on the Plymouth Div. (CSX/CP)
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TrainWatcher
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MOW show on the Plymouth Div. (CSX/CP)
As some of us know the city of Plymouth has approved a railroad bypass bridge over sheldon rd. The bridge will be constructed over the next 2 years. So I would expect to see lots of MOW equipment out this way. Mainly cranes and maybe the Jordan. Pumpkin CSX's are probably a given. I have been told by Matt that a flagman has been posted there for a few months.
CSX doesn't have any more MOW Pumpkin units. There is still one unit lingering, however it is a remote control drone (no prime mover). Unit is CSXT 9119, ex-9727.
My guess is that the MOW equipment will belong to the road commision, or whoever is doing the construction project. The railroad will not be constructing the bridge...
My guess is that the MOW equipment will belong to the road commision, or whoever is doing the construction project. The railroad will not be constructing the bridge...
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Raildudes dad
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The Kent County Raod Commission has a similar 2 year project with CSX. The bridge will be built by a MDOT prequalified contractor, in the case of Plymouth, Walter Toebe. Toebe will hire a MDOT prequalfied sub contractor like US Trackworks or Armond Cassil to build the runaround track. CSX track gang will make the cutovers and tie the main into the temporary track. You will see a tamper & ballast regulator for a couple days. After the new bridge is done. CSX will return to place the stone, ties and rail. They will cut off the temporary track and reconnect the main. A couple more days of tamping and they're all done. The subcontactor will remove the temporary track (probably gets to keep it too 
). If there's still code line there, that will have to be temporarily relocated for construction of the bridge and then reinstalled (most likely buried) when the main line is restored. Shopuld be an interesting project to watch if you like this type of work
). If there's still code line there, that will have to be temporarily relocated for construction of the bridge and then reinstalled (most likely buried) when the main line is restored. Shopuld be an interesting project to watch if you like this type of work -
TrainWatcher
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Well, its not hard to find another way. MDOT I heard will partially help to build the bridge. The other part CP/CSX MUST do it. CSX and CP both put up a good fight. Plymouth citizens won in the end. They will pretty much follow the same procedure as for the Newburgh Rd. Bridge on the Toldeo Div. and the Merriman Rd. Bridge on the Detroit Div. CSX did pull in the Pumpkins I know for the Newburgh project. Sat at the small switching yard behind my dad's old work. I expect a Geometry car to check the rail soon.
There is also news that Plymouth might make CSX to COMPLETELY build a bridge over Main St. By the Plymouth Diamond. Slow switching of trains at the yard has caused the problems with motorists.
There is also news that Plymouth might make CSX to COMPLETELY build a bridge over Main St. By the Plymouth Diamond. Slow switching of trains at the yard has caused the problems with motorists.
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GP30M4216
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This is an older article from April:
From the Detroit News on April 29, 2006. I don't know what the timetable will be for construction if it is approved. Before the deal fell through most recently, work was to begin this fall. With these likely temporary tracks which will be necessary, it will probably mean the removal of two classic searchlight mast signals in the area, a three face mast just west of the crossing for EB trains, and a two-face mast a ways east of the crossing for WB trains:
Get your photos of trains passing these C&O era signals now because they're cut down forever!
Sheldon Road bridge is on again
Plymouth span will carry trains over road, but who will maintain it is still being debated.
Doug Guthrie / The Detroit News
PLYMOUTH -- Plans are back on track for the fall closing of Sheldon Road, for construction of a railroad bridge that will carry trains over the road, and out of motorists' way.
But who will maintain the long-sought railroad bridge over Sheldon, south of M-14 at the city's northern border, remains a point of contention. Although state, county and local governments are funding most of the estimated $12 million cost, the government wants the railroad to own the bridge. Work could take two years.
"Maintenance over the lifetime of a bridge is no small matter, but we are cautiously confident that we will resolve this and other small issues in time to allow this project to start on time," said Alan C. Helmkamp, assistant Wayne County executive for government relations.
About 10 years ago, CSX took ownership of a county-built railroad bridge, on the same line, over Merriman Road between Plymouth and Schoolcraft roads. Both sides expect to reach an understanding on the Sheldon Road bridge by month's end.
Wayne County this month declared the project in jeopardy because the county and railroad hadn't finalized agreements over several issues, including rights of way needed to build the bridge and a temporary rail bypass.
Railroad officials accused the county of foot-dragging. But government and railroad officials met last week and ironed out some of their differences.
Since 1998, authorities have struggled with the plan to eliminate the traffic-clogging rail site.
Regional governments in January settled a lengthy dispute over how much each should pay. The railroad also must pay a small portion of the cost.
CSX, which has a policy of eliminating potentially dangerous crossings whenever possible, wanted new appraisals on the value of land it owns that the county needs for the project.
Facing an April 19 deadline set by the county to get construction bids in time to start work this fall, most issues were settled in a three-hour meeting last week. "This thing has dragged on for so long that it has developed a mythology of its own," said Tom Drake, CSX regional vice president of communications in Michigan. "People who started this project have retired. It was good to actually meet and understand each other's motivations."
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... 06/METRO01
From the Detroit News on April 29, 2006. I don't know what the timetable will be for construction if it is approved. Before the deal fell through most recently, work was to begin this fall. With these likely temporary tracks which will be necessary, it will probably mean the removal of two classic searchlight mast signals in the area, a three face mast just west of the crossing for EB trains, and a two-face mast a ways east of the crossing for WB trains:
Get your photos of trains passing these C&O era signals now because they're cut down forever!
Sheldon Road bridge is on again
Plymouth span will carry trains over road, but who will maintain it is still being debated.
Doug Guthrie / The Detroit News
PLYMOUTH -- Plans are back on track for the fall closing of Sheldon Road, for construction of a railroad bridge that will carry trains over the road, and out of motorists' way.
But who will maintain the long-sought railroad bridge over Sheldon, south of M-14 at the city's northern border, remains a point of contention. Although state, county and local governments are funding most of the estimated $12 million cost, the government wants the railroad to own the bridge. Work could take two years.
"Maintenance over the lifetime of a bridge is no small matter, but we are cautiously confident that we will resolve this and other small issues in time to allow this project to start on time," said Alan C. Helmkamp, assistant Wayne County executive for government relations.
About 10 years ago, CSX took ownership of a county-built railroad bridge, on the same line, over Merriman Road between Plymouth and Schoolcraft roads. Both sides expect to reach an understanding on the Sheldon Road bridge by month's end.
Wayne County this month declared the project in jeopardy because the county and railroad hadn't finalized agreements over several issues, including rights of way needed to build the bridge and a temporary rail bypass.
Railroad officials accused the county of foot-dragging. But government and railroad officials met last week and ironed out some of their differences.
Since 1998, authorities have struggled with the plan to eliminate the traffic-clogging rail site.
Regional governments in January settled a lengthy dispute over how much each should pay. The railroad also must pay a small portion of the cost.
CSX, which has a policy of eliminating potentially dangerous crossings whenever possible, wanted new appraisals on the value of land it owns that the county needs for the project.
Facing an April 19 deadline set by the county to get construction bids in time to start work this fall, most issues were settled in a three-hour meeting last week. "This thing has dragged on for so long that it has developed a mythology of its own," said Tom Drake, CSX regional vice president of communications in Michigan. "People who started this project have retired. It was good to actually meet and understand each other's motivations."
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... 06/METRO01
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Raildudes dad
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I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that the scenario I laid out is going to be the way it is. I've been the Project Manager / Engineer for 2 RR over highway bridges, 4 Highway over RR bridges, numerous grade crossing projects and even a couple grade crossing signal projects over the past 35 years. I've dealt with PC, Conrail, Norfolk Southern, KB&E, MIGN, GTW, GRE, MMRR, C&M and most recently Marquette.
I've got a CSX / local highway authority in the next room that I bet looks just like the CSX / Sheldon Road ageement except it says Kent County / 48th Street and references 48th Street drawings. A1 is correct, the railroad owns the land, the highway authority has a highway and sometimes utility easments. The "requesting" party gets to pay (State law) and I will definately guarantee it isn't CSX. CSX is not going to pay $0.01 towards the project. In fact, if they make a mistake in their work, the requesting party gets to pay to fix their mistake (personal experience with that one).
MDOT's involvement is providing money in the form of Federal funds plus nominal oversight. The locals get to pay about 20-25 % of the road & bridge cost plus normally 100% of public utility relocation plus100% project administration, design engineering, & construction engineering. They also get to pay 100% for the relocation of the ATT & Sprint fiber optic lines (they have easement from CSX that precedes the new bridge agreement).
Wayne County has been working on this project since at least 1987-88. I talked to one of their engineers back then. He wanted know how Kent County funded the Patterson Ave (Chessie the Cat ) bridge. Sheldon Road is a Wayne County DPS project. They are doing the construction supervison as well (check out the City of Plymouth web site if you don't believe me.) The big obstacle has been whose going to pay the local share and while they disagreed, the price kept going up 
.
The roadmaster will get whatever power the power bureau has available in the yard for his ballast train. Might be a pumpkin, but most likely not. There never was a pumpkin assigned to the work trains for 48th Street. One afternoon on 48th Street, he got 2 big 6 axle units for 5-70 ton cars of stone- slight over powering there
I don't know where you're coming up with CSX/CP. CP has trackage rights but they are not signatories to the agreement. There's no fight either. Requesting party calls for a MDOT Diagnostic Team review for their plans. MDOT Rail Safety Section reviews the proposed work and issues an order for the work if all parties agree. If there's a disagreement they will issue an order in accordance with the state statutes. CSX welcomes grade separations, new crossing and new signals requested by the highway authority. They get built at no cost to the RR and all RR expenses are fully reimbursed. They get to approve or reject the plans at their discretion. Kinda like going xmas shopping for your self and and having someone else pay, no questions asked.
If anyone has any questions after all this detail
, I'll try to answer them. If I don't know the answer, I'll get it.
I've got a CSX / local highway authority in the next room that I bet looks just like the CSX / Sheldon Road ageement except it says Kent County / 48th Street and references 48th Street drawings. A1 is correct, the railroad owns the land, the highway authority has a highway and sometimes utility easments. The "requesting" party gets to pay (State law) and I will definately guarantee it isn't CSX. CSX is not going to pay $0.01 towards the project. In fact, if they make a mistake in their work, the requesting party gets to pay to fix their mistake (personal experience with that one).
MDOT's involvement is providing money in the form of Federal funds plus nominal oversight. The locals get to pay about 20-25 % of the road & bridge cost plus normally 100% of public utility relocation plus100% project administration, design engineering, & construction engineering. They also get to pay 100% for the relocation of the ATT & Sprint fiber optic lines (they have easement from CSX that precedes the new bridge agreement).
Wayne County has been working on this project since at least 1987-88. I talked to one of their engineers back then. He wanted know how Kent County funded the Patterson Ave (Chessie the Cat
) bridge. Sheldon Road is a Wayne County DPS project. They are doing the construction supervison as well (check out the City of Plymouth web site if you don't believe me.) The big obstacle has been whose going to pay the local share and while they disagreed, the price kept going up .The roadmaster will get whatever power the power bureau has available in the yard for his ballast train. Might be a pumpkin, but most likely not. There never was a pumpkin assigned to the work trains for 48th Street. One afternoon on 48th Street, he got 2 big 6 axle units for 5-70 ton cars of stone- slight over powering there
I don't know where you're coming up with CSX/CP. CP has trackage rights but they are not signatories to the agreement. There's no fight either. Requesting party calls for a MDOT Diagnostic Team review for their plans. MDOT Rail Safety Section reviews the proposed work and issues an order for the work if all parties agree. If there's a disagreement they will issue an order in accordance with the state statutes. CSX welcomes grade separations, new crossing and new signals requested by the highway authority. They get built at no cost to the RR and all RR expenses are fully reimbursed. They get to approve or reject the plans at their discretion. Kinda like going xmas shopping for your self and and having someone else pay, no questions asked.
If anyone has any questions after all this detail
, I'll try to answer them. If I don't know the answer, I'll get it.-
CAT345C
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sounds like a loop whole, just like the bill saying the government must balance the budget every year, but they still find a way around it. I know I will be around the area taking shots if I can, trains, and big bulldozers suit my fancy always wanted a shot of a cat grader with a train engine in the frame.
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donnieland
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rr controls all work at railroad crossings
raildudes dad is quite correct when it comes to construction within the rr
row, after 39-1/2 yrs at the city of wyoming engineering dept i can atest to all he said
when i designed 36th at gm ( watermain and st imp), cole drain storm
crossing, even the line to steelcase madison ave and the 32nd st crossings all plans and spec had to be done per penncentral , then
conrail rr spec's with plans folded as the rr required ( not in a common
folded way ) and submitted to philadelphia eng office for approval, if they
didn't like what you had designed, the plans were redlined and returned,
with no approval granted to cross their row intil they were corrected as the rr required ( that means both above and below ground) that was min
1 year lead time. and if a flagman was needed you had better budget that
in the contract or any other want of the rr.
and if the rr would come to redo the street crossing ( place rubbized crossing or bit rubber crossing ) or remove a spur line , the engineering
dept had no control over any of the work period, time wise, how it would be done, we just barely had control of the traffic control devises.
raildudes dad and i have both been at the mercy of the rr when it comes
to working in thier row
row, after 39-1/2 yrs at the city of wyoming engineering dept i can atest to all he said
when i designed 36th at gm ( watermain and st imp), cole drain storm
crossing, even the line to steelcase madison ave and the 32nd st crossings all plans and spec had to be done per penncentral , then
conrail rr spec's with plans folded as the rr required ( not in a common
folded way ) and submitted to philadelphia eng office for approval, if they
didn't like what you had designed, the plans were redlined and returned,
with no approval granted to cross their row intil they were corrected as the rr required ( that means both above and below ground) that was min
1 year lead time. and if a flagman was needed you had better budget that
in the contract or any other want of the rr.
and if the rr would come to redo the street crossing ( place rubbized crossing or bit rubber crossing ) or remove a spur line , the engineering
dept had no control over any of the work period, time wise, how it would be done, we just barely had control of the traffic control devises.
raildudes dad and i have both been at the mercy of the rr when it comes
to working in thier row
don baxter
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TrainWatcher
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Well, it will be interesting, since this is a main artery to Plymouth Diamond. And yes, let's get those signal mast pics before those are cut down just like they did at Newburgh Rd. for that project. The MOW might be already down in oakley yard (alongside I-96) saw some stuff there 2 months ago, and still have nmot seen it come Westbound.
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~Z~
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That would be correct sir... here's a pic from a few years ago at Wyoming Yard:J T wrote:Is this what I saw at the west end of the Wyoming yard earlier in the week (mon or tue)?Mr. Tops wrote:CSX doesn't have any more MOW Pumpkin units. There is still one unit lingering, however it is a remote control drone (no prime mover). Unit is CSXT 9119, ex-9727.
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Raildudes dad
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