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CSX cutting down MAJORLY on intermodal to and from Detroit, and scaling back operations at North Baltimore. I notice the article says that one of the Detroit intermodal services being cut by CSX is to Mexico. Maybe Q131 and Q132 are coming to an end? Those run between Mexico and Detroit, correct?

It sounds like they're ending some of the low-margin (and likely low-volume) lanes via North Baltimore. With those eliminated, CSX can transition back to more of a point-to-point system, versus their hub-and-spoke, which was unique among Class I systems.

So now that they've played with the manifest routing, look for the intermodal fleet to be pushed into flux, with new routes, block-swaps, etc

The noise I'm hearing suggests North Baltimore will see a lot more manifest traffic in the future, as a block-swapping hub, as much as or even more than it will serve as an intermodal yard.

Anybody want some gently used high-span intermodal cranes?

Since Q-131/132 don't operate into N Baltimore they shouldn't be affected by its closing. These 2 trains run intact between the CSX intermodal site at Conrail's Livernois Yard to Salem, Ill where the UP takes over for the trip to Mexico. The Q-131 use to have 4 different blocks for auto plants in Mexico.

Fred wrote:Since Q-131/132 don't operate into N Baltimore they shouldn't be affected by its closing. These 2 trains run intact between the CSX intermodal site at Conrail's Livernois Yard to Salem, Ill where the UP takes over for the trip to Mexico. The Q-131 use to have 4 different blocks for auto plants in Mexico.

I know, but the article says that CSX is ending Mexico and Texas intermodal services to and from Detroit, so I'm assuming that it doesn't matter if North Baltimore is involved or not.

Can you post the link to the article you keep talking about?

MiddleMI wrote:Can you post the link to the article you keep talking about?

Sorry, forgot

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -baltimore

atrainguy60 wrote:

MiddleMI wrote:Can you post the link to the article you keep talking about?

Sorry, forgot

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -baltimore

You misunderstood what they meant.

They're not ending all service to Mexico, but they are ending service to *some* places in Mexico.

It is important to recall that North Baltimore was effectively a hump yard for intermodal containers. That way you could ship a container from Detroit to say Louisville because it'd be lifted at North Baltimore and placed in a new block heading for Louisville. It sounds like this was a very low margin business, which I'd expect it to be with all of the costs in making all of those train-to-train lifts.

I'm sure what CSX is telling their Detroit customers is that they're curtailing certain blocking patterns. So now, for example, you might not be able to ship directly from Detroit to Dallas. Instead they'll want you to put the container in a larger block, so it can be switched by train and not by a crane. So now maybe they'll only ship to Houston instead of a block for Houston, another for Amarillo, another for Dallas, another for El Paso, and so on. There will be fewer possible origin/destination pairings.

So any traffic loss will be customers who feel that the longer end-of-trip trucking means that they no longer want rail. We'll see. What may happen is that traffic to specific places out west will be more likely to ride the freeway to Chicago instead of loading at Detroit and lift-swapping in North Baltimore onto a new block heading west.

Before everybody tears Harrison to shreds over this, remember that margins are your business. Each lift is expensive and at the end of the day, CSX probably wasn't making enough to justify (at least to those with high standards like EHH) that it was worth CSX's time to run a train with containers from Detroit to North Baltimore, spend hours switching where those containers were in a train, and then shipping them to the western carriers. It'd lose them a bit of business to end said service, but who cares if it wasn't making any money. Now they can load up a stacker in Detroit and run right to Chicago.

Fewer origin/destination options but now CSX saves the terminal cost in North Baltimore.

This is logistics 101: do you run a hub-and-spoke network with many shorter hauls and higher terminal costs - but likely more traffic and more efficient routes - or do you run a leaner point-to-point network where loads might be originated or terminated farther away but with far less overhead?

According to the airlines, a combination is the answer. We'll see how much of North Baltimore is left, but I wouldn't be very shocked if it's used for block swapping everything from stacks to racks to junk, and those cranes are dismantled or used much less frequently.

Where's the Iron Highway when we need it?

Saturnalia wrote:

atrainguy60 wrote:

MiddleMI wrote:Can you post the link to the article you keep talking about?

Sorry, forgot

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -baltimore

You misunderstood what they meant.

They're not ending all service to Mexico, but they are ending service to *some* places in Mexico.

It is important to recall that North Baltimore was effectively a hump yard for intermodal containers. That way you could ship a container from Detroit to say Louisville because it'd be lifted at North Baltimore and placed in a new block heading for Louisville. It sounds like this was a very low margin business, which I'd expect it to be with all of the costs in making all of those train-to-train lifts.

I'm sure what CSX is telling their Detroit customers is that they're curtailing certain blocking patterns. So now, for example, you might not be able to ship directly from Detroit to Dallas. Instead they'll want you to put the container in a larger block, so it can be switched by train and not by a crane. So now maybe they'll only ship to Houston instead of a block for Houston, another for Amarillo, another for Dallas, another for El Paso, and so on. There will be fewer possible origin/destination pairings.

So any traffic loss will be customers who feel that the longer end-of-trip trucking means that they no longer want rail. We'll see. What may happen is that traffic to specific places out west will be more likely to ride the freeway to Chicago instead of loading at Detroit and lift-swapping in North Baltimore onto a new block heading west.

Before everybody tears Harrison to shreds over this, remember that margins are your business. Each lift is expensive and at the end of the day, CSX probably wasn't making enough to justify (at least to those with high standards like EHH) that it was worth CSX's time to run a train with containers from Detroit to North Baltimore, spend hours switching where those containers were in a train, and then shipping them to the western carriers. It'd lose them a bit of business to end said service, but who cares if it wasn't making any money. Now they can load up a stacker in Detroit and run right to Chicago.

Fewer origin/destination options but now CSX saves the terminal cost in North Baltimore.

This is logistics 101: do you run a hub-and-spoke network with many shorter hauls and higher terminal costs - but likely more traffic and more efficient routes - or do you run a leaner point-to-point network where loads might be originated or terminated farther away but with far less overhead?

According to the airlines, a combination is the answer. We'll see how much of North Baltimore is left, but I wouldn't be very shocked if it's used for block swapping everything from stacks to racks to junk, and those cranes are dismantled or used much less frequently.

Ahh, ok, makes sense.

Look for some double stacks on tonight’s 326.

Typhoon wrote:Look for some double stacks on tonight’s 326.

Where does he run?

Toppysager wrote:

Typhoon wrote:Look for some double stacks on tonight’s 326.

Where does he run?

Q326 is Chicago to Grand Rapids, MI. Supposedly there's a new traffic lane/train that will be running from 59th St in Chicago to Detroit via Grand Rapids very soon.

SD80MAC wrote:

Toppysager wrote:

Typhoon wrote:Look for some double stacks on tonight’s 326.

Where does he run?

Q326 is Chicago to Grand Rapids, MI. Supposedly there's a new traffic lane/train that will be running from 59th St in Chicago to Detroit via Grand Rapids very soon.

Wow when did they last have a stack train do that? This is all new traffic?

Saturnalia wrote:

atrainguy60 wrote:

MiddleMI wrote:Can you post the link to the article you keep talking about?

Sorry, forgot

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -baltimore

You misunderstood what they meant.

They're not ending all service to Mexico, but they are ending service to *some* places in Mexico.

It is important to recall that North Baltimore was effectively a hump yard for intermodal containers. That way you could ship a container from Detroit to say Louisville because it'd be lifted at North Baltimore and placed in a new block heading for Louisville. It sounds like this was a very low margin business, which I'd expect it to be with all of the costs in making all of those train-to-train lifts.

I'm sure what CSX is telling their Detroit customers is that they're curtailing certain blocking patterns. So now, for example, you might not be able to ship directly from Detroit to Dallas. Instead they'll want you to put the container in a larger block, so it can be switched by train and not by a crane. So now maybe they'll only ship to Houston instead of a block for Houston, another for Amarillo, another for Dallas, another for El Paso, and so on. There will be fewer possible origin/destination pairings.

So any traffic loss will be customers who feel that the longer end-of-trip trucking means that they no longer want rail. We'll see. What may happen is that traffic to specific places out west will be more likely to ride the freeway to Chicago instead of loading at Detroit and lift-swapping in North Baltimore onto a new block heading west.

Before everybody tears Harrison to shreds over this, remember that margins are your business. Each lift is expensive and at the end of the day, CSX probably wasn't making enough to justify (at least to those with high standards like EHH) that it was worth CSX's time to run a train with containers from Detroit to North Baltimore, spend hours switching where those containers were in a train, and then shipping them to the western carriers. It'd lose them a bit of business to end said service, but who cares if it wasn't making any money. Now they can load up a stacker in Detroit and run right to Chicago.

Fewer origin/destination options but now CSX saves the terminal cost in North Baltimore.

This is logistics 101: do you run a hub-and-spoke network with many shorter hauls and higher terminal costs - but likely more traffic and more efficient routes - or do you run a leaner point-to-point network where loads might be originated or terminated farther away but with far less overhead?

According to the airlines, a combination is the answer. We'll see how much of North Baltimore is left, but I wouldn't be very shocked if it's used for block swapping everything from stacks to racks to junk, and those cranes are dismantled or used much less frequently.

So are 131 and 132 gonna get slashed?

That's great news! It will be great to see intermodal on the PM again.

Does anyone know what Q131 carries to Mexico auto plants. I know it's auto parts. But what kind of auto parts are produced in the Detroit area and shipped all the way to Mexico, that would justify a designated train?

Toppysager wrote:Wow when did they last have a stack train do that? This is all new traffic?

The last CSX Intermodal Trains via GRP were the short-lived Q195/196 around 2011.

Previously there were the CP run-through trains and some other sporadic C&O and CSX offerings...plus the days of the C&O roadrailers, if you wanna count those.

This is NOT new traffic. This is stuff which doesn't need to go via Ohio anymore because stuff isn't follow hub-and-spoke anymore. With very little online between Porter and Plymouth, so long as the train lengths stay down, these intermodal trains should move well through Michigan. I bet sooner or later, given enough traffic, they'll get their own dedicated trains. Maybe after all is said and done they'll actually tack some junk onto the GRP-Detroit leg to finally dump westbound Detroit-originating traffic via Chicago, bypassing the current pickup-setout arrangement in Plymouth.

Now just waiting on some rack trains!

And y'all through Harrison was death to Michigan

Saturnalia wrote:And y'all through Harrison was death to Michigan

Maybe he got rid of the "we always did it that way" or the "that won't work" folks and brought in some folks with an open mind on change. As an outsider it appeared they were ore into catchy phrases "How tomorrow moves" than actually making improvements.

Raildudes dad wrote:

Saturnalia wrote:And y'all through Harrison was death to Michigan

Maybe he got rid of the "we always did it that way" or the "that won't work" folks and brought in some folks with an open mind on change. As an outsider it appeared they were ore into catchy phrases "How tomorrow moves" than actually making improvements.

EXACTLY RDD! EXACTLY! I think they had a whole floor in J-ville dedicated to coming up with the catch phrase of the month...How Tomorrow Moves (rife with double meaning that one!) Love Your Customer (but not too much) the list goes on.

If the focus in North Baltimore is to be switched from intermodal to manifest, what does that mean for Willard?