GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
This is a very big what if question. This is not a rumor or a plan or anything like that.
If the GLC and AA were to merger, how would this change the operations of the railroads?
I can think of only 1 substantial change that would occur and that would be the CSX-GLC interchange at AnnPere would see a substantial decrease in traffic and the interchange traffic would be moved to Toledo between CSX.
In terms of operations, I don't think you would see substantial changes. I think the biggest change would be the operations of the Toledo-Osmer and Owosso-Osmer trains. I think you might see this turn into a straight run up from Toledo-Owosso with crews meeting and changing trains to return to their home city at Osmer or Chilson.
I don't think much would change with CN-GLC/AA interchange as Durand is more centrally located on CN lines than Toledo. I don't think NS interchange would change any.
I do wonder if you might see more traffic taking an IORY - GLC/AA routing up into Michigan.
I don't know if it will ever happen, I would like to see these lines merge back together and recreate what is left of the old AA.
If the GLC and AA were to merger, how would this change the operations of the railroads?
I can think of only 1 substantial change that would occur and that would be the CSX-GLC interchange at AnnPere would see a substantial decrease in traffic and the interchange traffic would be moved to Toledo between CSX.
In terms of operations, I don't think you would see substantial changes. I think the biggest change would be the operations of the Toledo-Osmer and Owosso-Osmer trains. I think you might see this turn into a straight run up from Toledo-Owosso with crews meeting and changing trains to return to their home city at Osmer or Chilson.
I don't think much would change with CN-GLC/AA interchange as Durand is more centrally located on CN lines than Toledo. I don't think NS interchange would change any.
I do wonder if you might see more traffic taking an IORY - GLC/AA routing up into Michigan.
I don't know if it will ever happen, I would like to see these lines merge back together and recreate what is left of the old AA.
Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
Would AnnPere remain an active interchange or would all CSX traffic go to Toledo?
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
I would guess it would all go to Toledo, which would not be good for the Plymouth Sub.
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
So According to a rail worker for GLC this is what he said if it would happen.chapmaja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:20 pmThis is a very big what if question. This is not a rumor or a plan or anything like that.
If the GLC and AA were to merger, how would this change the operations of the railroads?
I can think of only 1 substantial change that would occur and that would be the CSX-GLC interchange at AnnPere would see a substantial decrease in traffic and the interchange traffic would be moved to Toledo between CSX.
In terms of operations, I don't think you would see substantial changes. I think the biggest change would be the operations of the Toledo-Osmer and Owosso-Osmer trains. I think you might see this turn into a straight run up from Toledo-Owosso with crews meeting and changing trains to return to their home city at Osmer or Chilson.
I don't think much would change with CN-GLC/AA interchange as Durand is more centrally located on CN lines than Toledo. I don't think NS interchange would change any.
I do wonder if you might see more traffic taking an IORY - GLC/AA routing up into Michigan.
I don't know if it will ever happen, I would like to see these lines merge back together and recreate what is left of the old AA.
So Toledo to as far north as Ithaca will see more traffic due to the ZFS and other industries up there.
Ithaca to Cadillac will have same number of traffic if not then maybe one more run
There had been plans to have a translating facility in Kalkaska, if they merged, this could be build and if this is build. The TC branch would be abandoned (If A2TC doesn’t happen) and everything north of Kalkaska would be removed
Speaking of passenger trains, A2TC and SRI operations are going to be mixed (especially if traffic is increased) so they possibly wouldn’t run or at least run trains from Owosso to Ithaca.
So that’s what would happen if AA merge with GLC according to an employee from GLC.
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
GLC doesn't have authority to "abandon" that line or north of Kalkaska. That trackage (like all its system except for HESR Durand-Owosso, Middleton Branch and perhaps Owosso shop tracks) is owned by the state.dalek ling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:35 pmThe TC branch would be abandoned (If A2TC doesn’t happen) and everything north of Kalkaska would be removed
GLC likely cannot drop service on a whim to those areas without revising its agreement with the state.
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
100 P frfrSteve B wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:38 amGLC doesn't have authority to "abandon" that line or north of Kalkaska. That trackage (like all its system except for HESR Durand-Owosso, Middleton Branch and perhaps Owosso shop tracks) is owned by the state.dalek ling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:35 pmThe TC branch would be abandoned (If A2TC doesn’t happen) and everything north of Kalkaska would be removed
GLC likely cannot drop service on a whim to those areas without revising its agreement with the state.
But...Watco could determine that they do not want to go north of Cadillac and someone else could operate up there.
I think we would probably see some amount of interchanging still at Ann Pere. There's a lot of GLC traffic that heads west on CSX. You're adding two days shipping by having it all go down to Toledo I can think of one customer in particular that would not appreciate that.
Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
And another paper railroad is bornLansingRailFan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:53 amBut...Watco could determine that they do not want to go north of Cadillac and someone else could operate up there.
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
Yes. The Northern Transload RR. Possibilities are endless.AARR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:28 amAnd another paper railroad is bornLansingRailFan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:53 amBut...Watco could determine that they do not want to go north of Cadillac and someone else could operate up there.
Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
I think someone is smoking something. No way GLC is bought out by Watco anytime soon. Mark my words, all who say this is happening in March come back to this post a year from now and tell me this merger happened (or should I say did NOT happen).
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
I don't see that happening. This is Watco not G&W. Watco will hunt down a customer that only gets 1 car a month. More than likely they would try to get at least one or two more small customers in TC. Or just run it as it is and off set the expense with business on the south end.dalek ling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:35 pm
The TC branch would be abandoned (If A2TC doesn’t happen) and everything north of Kalkaska would be removed
Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
Materne could get 4-10 carloads of apples per month. Just saying .1TrackMind wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 12:40 pmI don't see that happening. This is Watco not G&W. Watco will hunt down a customer that only gets 1 car a month. More than likely they would try to get at least one or two more small customers in TC. Or just run it as it is and off set the expense with business on the south end.dalek ling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:35 pm
The TC branch would be abandoned (If A2TC doesn’t happen) and everything north of Kalkaska would be removed
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...
Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
But the rail bikes live there now.AARR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:51 pmMaterne could get 4-10 carloads of apples per month. Just saying .1TrackMind wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 12:40 pmI don't see that happening. This is Watco not G&W. Watco will hunt down a customer that only gets 1 car a month. More than likely they would try to get at least one or two more small customers in TC. Or just run it as it is and off set the expense with business on the south end.dalek ling wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:35 pm
The TC branch would be abandoned (If A2TC doesn’t happen) and everything north of Kalkaska would be removed
I cite Watco's FOXY Medford Subdivision as the prime example of them hunting down customers that only get 1-5 cars a month.
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
In this hypothetical situation, I could see a Toledo to Owosso or Owosso to Toledo train needing to focus on getting over the road and not having enough time to work all the online customers along the way. I could see a definite need for a local based out of the small yard at Milan. This job could work industries perhaps as far north as North Territorial Road down through Dundee, catch and setoff any IORY interchange, and work the local NS interchange as well. This way Toledo could just build a Milan block including all of the above and then local customers and Owosso and any AnnPere traffic. Same on the reverse, southbound run.
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC GLC runs two local turns on their line between Cadillac and Owosso, with them meeting in Clare and swapping trains before returning to their respective terminals. Could something similar happen between Owosso and Toledo? Maybe have a southbound out of Owosso and a northbound out of Toledo and they meet somewhere in the middle, perhaps Osmer?
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
That is exactly what I would expect to have happen. The OSTN and TNTN (Toledo North Turn) would meet in Osmer and swap trains.atrainguy60 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:58 pmCorrect me if I'm wrong, but IIRC GLC runs two local turns on their line between Cadillac and Owosso, with them meeting in Clare and swapping trains before returning to their respective terminals. Could something similar happen between Owosso and Toledo? Maybe have a southbound out of Owosso and a northbound out of Toledo and they meet somewhere in the middle, perhaps Osmer?
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
So in other words, this fantasy merger that will not happen would not really change anything.chapmaja wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:57 amThat is exactly what I would expect to have happen. The OSTN and TNTN (Toledo North Turn) would meet in Osmer and swap trains.atrainguy60 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:58 pmCorrect me if I'm wrong, but IIRC GLC runs two local turns on their line between Cadillac and Owosso, with them meeting in Clare and swapping trains before returning to their respective terminals. Could something similar happen between Owosso and Toledo? Maybe have a southbound out of Owosso and a northbound out of Toledo and they meet somewhere in the middle, perhaps Osmer?
I recall being told by Ann Arbor RR employees in the 1960s that the AA ran almost like to separate railroads. The east end, Owosso to Toledo, made a $4MM profit and the west end, Owosso to Elberta, lost $6MM.
Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
That’s… that’s not how you run a successful business. No wonder they folded.
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Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
That's how they used to operate. It's pretty messy these days.atrainguy60 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:58 pmCorrect me if I'm wrong, but IIRC GLC runs two local turns on their line between Cadillac and Owosso, with them meeting in Clare and swapping trains before returning to their respective terminals. Could something similar happen between Owosso and Toledo? Maybe have a southbound out of Owosso and a northbound out of Toledo and they meet somewhere in the middle, perhaps Osmer?
Re: GLC / AA Merger WHAT IF
Are you familiar with the Interstate Commerce Commission and the stranglehold of pre-1980 regulation?
The AA did get ICC approval to abandon the Manistique and Menominee runs. But that wasn't sufficient to regain profitability, and the good-faith ferry repowering & clearance improvement efforts weren't enough either.
If the Ann Arbor's June 1972 application to abandon the Manitowoc & Kewaunee ferry lines, plus Thompsonville to Frankfort had been approved by the sclerotic ICC, it would have had a chance to become a successful business again. The abandonment hearings dragged on interminably and the AA went bankrupt in Oct. 1973.