86 foot hi cube boxcars
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 10:43 pm
I love seeing these all over Detroit, especially after realizing most other areas don't have them. My understanding is many of these should be coming up on their end of life soon. I found myself pretty fascinated with their unique qualities and being so prominent here. Was hoping to consolidate what I know about them into one thread and see if anyone else knows more. I figured this would warrant it's own thread since these seem to be mostly on the way out and they're pretty common in Michigan and pretty much Michigan only
So what I do know:
Really good writeup here: https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/gree ... r-box-car/
as well as some other good threads:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?2,4362812 Maybe some of the best info here
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?1,3934564
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?3,4769411
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?3,4769411
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... sg-3804279
http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=205138
Mostly made by Greenville Steel approximately ~4400 made
Production run from 1964-1978 which I'd guess with rebuild would put end of life for these to 2014 to 2028. Though I've also read in some threads that these were built/delivered through the 80s. Unless they are to remain on their home lines and not interchange (seems unlikely) I assume most of these are on the way out, and likely many have already been scrapped and in five years or so there will likely be done left?
They seem to have all been repainted from the original customers and now mostly exist in CN, Conrail, NS, GT/GTW and Illinois Central livery.
Where they go
They seem to move around frequently in Detroit, from what I've gathered they're going to the Ford Brownstown Redistribution center, Ford River Rouge Plant, Detroit Regional Distribution (which is part of the Oakwood NS yard), Chrysler Warren Stamping plant, Chrysler Stamping Plant in Sterling Heights and Stellantis Assembly plant in Sterling Heights.
Other reports seem to indicate they go to the Ford plants in Buffalo, Chicago Heights and Claycomo, MO, Mahwah, NJ (no longer active), Lordstown, OH (no longer active) Pico Rivera, CA (no longer active), Milpitas, CA (no longer active)
Some fairly recent reports: NS runs daily train 181 out of Detroit that consists of 70-80% high cubes destined for the Ford truck plant at Claycomo,MO. The empties return on 120 and 122. Also, NS runs a night time local daily except Saturday from the GM stamping plant at Marion,IN to the truck plant at Roanoke,IN that is entirely high cubes, usually 9-15 boxes daily.
We see these cars daily on CN trains # 421 & 422 from Buffalo to Toronto.
Still going strong painted CN,GTW,IC,DT & I, NS, CSX etc
They're obviously super long, so mostly for lightweight autoparts: stampings, gas tanks various parts etc. I also heard at times they were used for transporting appliances for GE and in some cases hay/alfalfa, bottles, insulation and in Battle Creek -- cereal.
This post on trainorders seemed to provide a lot of context as to their fate:
The shrinking number of 86-foot Hi Cube boxcars is a result of changes in the auto industry. The Big 3 used to have many "stand alone" stamping plants that made particular parts that were distributed throughout the country. The Big 3 also had assembly plants on the East and West coasts. That was the business model in the 1960's and 1970's, and virtually all the Class I carriers maintained fleets of 86-foot and 60-foot Hi Cube boxcars for auto parts. The famous Southern Railway train known as the "Sparkplug", from Cincinnati to Atlanta, handled large numbers of such loads going to the GM and Ford assembly plants near Atlanta. The B&O/Chessie train 396 handled blocks of auto parts loads to assembly plants at Baltimore and Wilsmere. Conrail operated trains that were scheduled around large volume moves of auto parts, such as COLT/LTCO to and from the GM plant at Lordstown OH. Or the famous "Ford Fast" trains that operated on the Rio Grande and Western Pacific, handling auto parts to the California assembly plants. The 86-foot boxcars were ideal for that business, as the racks with the various body panels needed plenty of cubic capacity, but were relatively lightweight. There were actually more 60-foot boxcars in the auto parts business, as GM preferred 60-foot cars for alot of their moves.
But beginning in the 1980's, the Big 3 began moving away from that model, and the "stand alone" stamping plants began to close. Instead, the preferred model was to have a stamping plant adjacent to assembly plants, which eliminated the need for moving the body panels. Another factor was the closure of all the East and West coast assembly plants. All of those plants used to receive large volumes of auto parts. The need for 86-foot boxcars has fallen considerably, and that car type has proven rather difficult to adapt to other lines of business. There still are some moves of auto parts (from GM Parma OH Stamping plant, for example), but the auto parts business is only a shadow of what it once was. The rail industry ended up with a huge excess supply of 86-foot boxcars, and many of the older cars have been retired. I believe the last 86-foot boxcars were built sometime around 1980, and those cars could last until about 2030, if there is a use for them. There may not be a need to ever build any more.
The foreign-based companies that built automobiles in the U.S. (Toyota, Honda, etc), never moved auto parts by boxcar. They typically have stamping plants right next to the assembly plants. Any parts that have to move into their assembly plants from other locations move by truck or intermodal container.
I tried to do all my research before posting, but I wonder what anyone else can add about these unique (to us) cars. The way I see it, Auto companies aren't building new plants in the US, so they'll need something to ship these parts around and the rail infrastructure is there, but these cars have <10 years left in them, so will they just switch to trucks or smaller cars, or maybe something new will come along (wishful thinking)
So what I do know:
Really good writeup here: https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/gree ... r-box-car/
as well as some other good threads:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?2,4362812 Maybe some of the best info here
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?1,3934564
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?3,4769411
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?3,4769411
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... sg-3804279
http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=205138
Mostly made by Greenville Steel approximately ~4400 made
Production run from 1964-1978 which I'd guess with rebuild would put end of life for these to 2014 to 2028. Though I've also read in some threads that these were built/delivered through the 80s. Unless they are to remain on their home lines and not interchange (seems unlikely) I assume most of these are on the way out, and likely many have already been scrapped and in five years or so there will likely be done left?
They seem to have all been repainted from the original customers and now mostly exist in CN, Conrail, NS, GT/GTW and Illinois Central livery.
Where they go
They seem to move around frequently in Detroit, from what I've gathered they're going to the Ford Brownstown Redistribution center, Ford River Rouge Plant, Detroit Regional Distribution (which is part of the Oakwood NS yard), Chrysler Warren Stamping plant, Chrysler Stamping Plant in Sterling Heights and Stellantis Assembly plant in Sterling Heights.
Other reports seem to indicate they go to the Ford plants in Buffalo, Chicago Heights and Claycomo, MO, Mahwah, NJ (no longer active), Lordstown, OH (no longer active) Pico Rivera, CA (no longer active), Milpitas, CA (no longer active)
Some fairly recent reports: NS runs daily train 181 out of Detroit that consists of 70-80% high cubes destined for the Ford truck plant at Claycomo,MO. The empties return on 120 and 122. Also, NS runs a night time local daily except Saturday from the GM stamping plant at Marion,IN to the truck plant at Roanoke,IN that is entirely high cubes, usually 9-15 boxes daily.
We see these cars daily on CN trains # 421 & 422 from Buffalo to Toronto.
Still going strong painted CN,GTW,IC,DT & I, NS, CSX etc
They're obviously super long, so mostly for lightweight autoparts: stampings, gas tanks various parts etc. I also heard at times they were used for transporting appliances for GE and in some cases hay/alfalfa, bottles, insulation and in Battle Creek -- cereal.
This post on trainorders seemed to provide a lot of context as to their fate:
The shrinking number of 86-foot Hi Cube boxcars is a result of changes in the auto industry. The Big 3 used to have many "stand alone" stamping plants that made particular parts that were distributed throughout the country. The Big 3 also had assembly plants on the East and West coasts. That was the business model in the 1960's and 1970's, and virtually all the Class I carriers maintained fleets of 86-foot and 60-foot Hi Cube boxcars for auto parts. The famous Southern Railway train known as the "Sparkplug", from Cincinnati to Atlanta, handled large numbers of such loads going to the GM and Ford assembly plants near Atlanta. The B&O/Chessie train 396 handled blocks of auto parts loads to assembly plants at Baltimore and Wilsmere. Conrail operated trains that were scheduled around large volume moves of auto parts, such as COLT/LTCO to and from the GM plant at Lordstown OH. Or the famous "Ford Fast" trains that operated on the Rio Grande and Western Pacific, handling auto parts to the California assembly plants. The 86-foot boxcars were ideal for that business, as the racks with the various body panels needed plenty of cubic capacity, but were relatively lightweight. There were actually more 60-foot boxcars in the auto parts business, as GM preferred 60-foot cars for alot of their moves.
But beginning in the 1980's, the Big 3 began moving away from that model, and the "stand alone" stamping plants began to close. Instead, the preferred model was to have a stamping plant adjacent to assembly plants, which eliminated the need for moving the body panels. Another factor was the closure of all the East and West coast assembly plants. All of those plants used to receive large volumes of auto parts. The need for 86-foot boxcars has fallen considerably, and that car type has proven rather difficult to adapt to other lines of business. There still are some moves of auto parts (from GM Parma OH Stamping plant, for example), but the auto parts business is only a shadow of what it once was. The rail industry ended up with a huge excess supply of 86-foot boxcars, and many of the older cars have been retired. I believe the last 86-foot boxcars were built sometime around 1980, and those cars could last until about 2030, if there is a use for them. There may not be a need to ever build any more.
The foreign-based companies that built automobiles in the U.S. (Toyota, Honda, etc), never moved auto parts by boxcar. They typically have stamping plants right next to the assembly plants. Any parts that have to move into their assembly plants from other locations move by truck or intermodal container.
I tried to do all my research before posting, but I wonder what anyone else can add about these unique (to us) cars. The way I see it, Auto companies aren't building new plants in the US, so they'll need something to ship these parts around and the rail infrastructure is there, but these cars have <10 years left in them, so will they just switch to trucks or smaller cars, or maybe something new will come along (wishful thinking)